Will Hitler Trump All?

[NatRapsEno]

I believe MajorBall is going to join with me as Allies. I will be out for the rest of the day but he might come to this thread and get it going

[WIFKillzone]

I might be on that, but need more info on time commitment.

[Majorball68]

I might be on that, but need more info on time commitment.

I am on Aussie times zones mostly processing my own turns. Anything requiring interaction of both sides I can be available most times, NatRapsEno could fill you in on the US times. Haven't been following the thread so not sure on your house rules, optional rules etc. Happy to be included in any new game you have i mind.

[Orm]

The following options, and house rules, were in play in this game. We have been altering them somewhat between games. Mainly the 1d10 LCT with blitz bonus have been used instead of the 2d10 in some games.

+ Only strategic bombing missions are allowed at night.
+ No CAP allowed.
+ SUBs always excluded in port strikes versus major ports.
+ Partisans must be placed actively, if possible, and then used actively. No 'hiding' partisans in remote areas just to increase partisan value.
+ No air reaction for naval searches from the mainland to the North Atlantic. Reacting from the Azores is ok. And flying actively during own impulse is also ok.
+ Chinese aircraft may not react to any sea area. They may actively fly to the sea area.
+ One VP lost for CW if there is any controlled country by Italy in Sub-Saharan Africa at the beginning of 1942. One more lost at he beginning of 1944, And one more at the end of the game. Up to a total of 3 VPs may be lost for CW that way.
+ France lose one VP if Madagascar is Axis controlled at the end of the game.
+ You can’t move naval units between the Baltic Sea and the North Sea (not even via Fredrikshavn or Kristiansand) if major powers you are at war with control at least 2 of Oslo, Copenhagen and Kiel. If you do not have access to passage, then ships in port must return to the sea zone that they entered from. (The exact wording of this house rule might change)
+ The above rule also applies to Brest and the North Sea unless the power that controls Brest also controls London.

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[NatRapsEno]

Here are the optional-rule modifications the Allies would like to make. These are considered negotiable.

Cruisers in Flames off.
Variable reorganization values on.
Unlimited Breakdown on.

Here is another house rule that we propose:

"If the Axis establishes a Vichy Government, the Commonwealth forces may not establish new land units West of the Garonne river. If they already have forces there, they must remove them by the end of the turn following the establishment of a Vichy government, or they are eliminated."

This rule eliminates the exploitation of a rules flaw. The French would never have allowed British units to occupy those areas after the fall of France. They were in no frame of mind to think years ahead and see this as a possible bridgehead to their future liberation. If you argue that they would, then I trump you with the assertion that the Germans would certainly never have allowed it and would have demanded the Vichy government allow their forces to flank the position to the South (without a Vichy government collapse).

[rkr1958]

Here is another house rule that we propose:

"If the Axis establishes a Vichy Government, the Commonwealth forces may not establish new land units West of the Garonne river. If they already have forces there, they must remove them by the end of the turn following the establishment of a Vichy government, or they are eliminated."

I really like this rule. Clean, simple & effectively eliminates the Bordeaux enclave exploit. One question though, how long is this restriction left in place? Surely you don't mean to prevent the allies in the future from establishing a bridgehead in the Bordeaux, Bayonne sector?

[NatRapsEno]

Excellent point Ronnie. I therefore propose the following revision to the aforementioned rule.

"If the Axis establishes a Vichy Government, the Commonwealth forces may not establish new land units West of the Garonne river except through an invasion one year after the establishment of the Vichy government. If they already have forces there, they must remove them by the end of the turn following the establishment of a Vichy government, or they are eliminated."

[Majorball68]

The following options, and house rules, were in play in this game. We have been altering them somewhat between games. Mainly the 1d10 LCT with blitz bonus have been used instead of the 2d10 in some games.

+ Only strategic bombing missions are allowed at night.
+ No CAP allowed.
+ SUBs always excluded in port strikes versus major ports.
+ Partisans must be placed actively, if possible, and then used actively. No 'hiding' partisans in remote areas just to increase partisan value.
+ No air reaction for naval searches from the mainland to the North Atlantic. Reacting from the Azores is ok. And flying actively during own impulse is also ok.
+ Chinese aircraft may not react to any sea area. They may actively fly to the sea area.
+ One VP lost for CW if there is any controlled country by Italy in Sub-Saharan Africa at the beginning of 1942. One more lost at he beginning of 1944, And one more at the end of the game. Up to a total of 3 VPs may be lost for CW that way.
+ France lose one VP if Madagascar is Axis controlled at the end of the game.
+ You can’t move naval units between the Baltic Sea and the North Sea (not even via Fredrikshavn or Kristiansand) if major powers you are at war with control at least 2 of Oslo, Copenhagen and Kiel. If you do not have access to passage, then ships in port must return to the sea zone that they entered from. (The exact wording of this house rule might change)
+ The above rule also applies to Brest and the North Sea unless the power that controls Brest also controls London.
0000.jpg

I don't have any issues with those and whatever NatRapsEno can negotiate. Not familair will playing with those partiuclar ones but if I stray I am sure you guys will let me know, it won't be intentional. No HQ supply is interesting, certianly requires a bit more thought into planning.
Are there any restrictions with USSR/Japan?

[NatRapsEno]

Just as an FYI, MajorBall and I are expecting to play the Allies.

[Orm]

Here are the optional-rule modifications the Allies would like to make. These are considered negotiable.

Cruisers in Flames off.
Variable reorganization values on.
Unlimited Breakdown on.

Here is another house rule that we propose:

"If the Axis establishes a Vichy Government, the Commonwealth forces may not establish new land units West of the Garonne river. If they already have forces there, they must remove

them by the end of the turn following the establishment of a Vichy government, or they are eliminated."

This rule eliminates the exploitation of a rules flaw. The French would never have allowed British units to occupy those areas after the fall of France. They were in no frame of

mind to think years ahead and see this as a possible bridgehead to their future liberation. If you argue that they would, then I trump you with the assertion that the Germans would

certainly never have allowed it and would have demanded the Vichy government allow their forces to flank the position to the South (without a Vichy government collapse).

I think that you are right in that the German/Vichy would make some sort of agreement in clearing the Bordeaux area of CW forces. Although I think the proposed house rule is a bit harsh.

How about a variant of one of these? I prefer A) myself.

A) CW forces may not enter any hex in France West of the Garonne river unless one of the following has occurred; Axis controlled land units are within 5 hexes of Bayonne, Axis land units are in the Bay of Biscay, Spain is an active minor, or Paris has been controlled by Axis during two end of turns (note: Vichy does not have had to be declared).

B) CW forces West of the Garonne river will be moved (edited) to a CW hex (selected by CW) in England during Vichy creation, then that unit may not leave UK for one turn. Allied forces may not land in France from the BoB sea area the turn following Vichy creation.

C) CW forces West of the Garonne river must be moved out of that area as soon as practical. Axis forces may not attack those units in the BoB during the first turn after Vichy creation. Allied forces may not enter that area until one turn without Allied forces in that area has passed.

[Orm]

Here are the optional-rule modifications the Allies would like to make. These are considered negotiable.

Cruisers in Flames off.
Variable reorganization values on.
Unlimited Breakdown on.

- I like the extra cruisers, and think they add flavour, but I have no trouble being without them for a couple of games.
- Variable reorganization adds little in my humble opinion except complicating things. I also think that 3-4 BP air units get unfair treatment in their increased reorganization cost.
- Unlimited divisions gives way to many MOT Divs in play when using the 2d10 LCT in my humble opinion. It also provides for plenty of divisions to operate in remote areas, or for invasions from cruisers. Not sure it is entirely bug free either. However, as I have yet to play a regular game with them I am willing to give it a go (preferably without the 2d10).
- Emergency HQ Supply was removed to improve the speed of the game. Less interactions needed when the opponent has units OOS.
- We've played a couple of games with the 2d10 LCT now, and I still dislike that option. Even more so now. Therefore I would prefer to play with the 1d10 LCT with blitz bonus.

[Orm]

Are there any restrictions with USSR/Japan?

No restrictions. Willing to consider any suggestion if you have any?

[Orm]

I was told that I was very negative to your suggested option changes, and that was not my intention. I just wanted to explain part of why I do not like them all that much. However, I can play with them all, or without.

The 2d10 table however, I could really do without. Two games in a row with that one feels enough for me (for now).

So I suggest that we:

Remove the options:
- 2d10 Land CRT
- Cruisers in Flames

Add the options:
+ Blitz bonus
+ Unlimited breakdown
+ Variable reorganization costs

We been using version 5.0.0.10. I guess we will continue to use that version? Or?

If that works, then the US player can begin setting up, and start a new AAR thread.

[NatRapsEno]

I just don't understand why you hate the 2D10 combat table. It reduces the luck in the game.

I prefer the Garonne rule as I put it forth with the amendment that Britain can invade that area a year after Vichy creation. To me, it only matters if the Axis create a Vichy government. If they don't, then they are most likely going for a complete conquest of France. In that case, the Allies should be able to defend anywhere they like in France.

I propose that we keep 2D10, add Emergency HQ supply (I meant to recommend that as an addition but forgot because I think it's realistic) but as a gesture of compromise, drop unlimited breakdown and variable reorganization.

Do we have deal?

[Orm]

I dislike the 2d10 because, to me;

- it increases the element of luck. Not reduce it. The worst possible result with the 1d10 has 10% likelihood of occurring. With 2d10 the likelihood of the worst result is 1%.
- It reduces the importance of odds.
- I find the extra losses annoying. Increasing the element of 'luck' further
- The 2d10 gives ridiculous (and unhistorical imho) winter bonuses to the Soviets in the late war.
- The blitz loss requirement. A HQA can be a forced loss because the defender called blitz, but a MOT Div does as well if that is included.

[Orm]

I prefer the Garonne rule as I put it forth with the amendment that Britain can invade that area a year after Vichy creation. To me, it only matters if the Axis create a Vichy government. If they don't, then they are most likely going for a complete conquest of France. In that case, the Allies should be able to defend anywhere they like in France.

I can play with that. It is fine.

Why the Axis will not need to defend that area against invasion for a year eludes me. Especially if Axis attacks Spain. But I am fine with that.

Why the CW forces simply would give up and self destroy if they were not evacuated also eludes me, but I am fine with that as well.

[NatRapsEno]

With regards to the Soviet Winter bonus, I do believe you have a point. The Winter bonus is probably too extreme.

I think we have a deal, so I will start a new game and send it to you for Italian setup when we get there.

Good luck to your team.

[Majorball68]

Are there any restrictions with USSR/Japan?

No restrictions. Willing to consider any suggestion if you have any?

USSR-Japan compulsory peace option is off so no need to consider any house rules.

[Majorball68]

ItalySetup.zip

Italy Set up

(1.55 MiB) Downloaded 15 times

[NatRapsEno]

There are no house rules with regards to the USSR and Japan. They are free to attack each other at will for as long as they desire.