Questions About the Game From Potential Newcomer

[RedwoodForest]

Hello everyone. I was browsing the ongoing Matrix sale and noticed this game, World in Flames. I know nothing about it but am intrigued by its grand scale and the prospect of playing "the world," so to speak, during WWII. I am a newcomer to wargames, getting my feet wet with my first "proper" hex and counter, Flashpoint Campaigns Cold War. (I've dabbled with WitP AE but that's very slow going). I am enjoying FCCW immensely and intend to pick up War in Spain when it comes out in January.

I have some questions about this game:
1. Being relatively new to wargames, will this one be biting off too much to chew?
2. Is there solo/AI play? I would like to use it to get my feet wet before venturing online.
3. How is the community: is it active, warm, welcoming to newcomers?
4. Does it remain under active development?
5. Are there many bugs, if any?
6. On the whole, is this game worth the $50? What is your favorite aspect of it? Would you recommend it? Reddit told me to source several opinions. So, I'm coming here — the only other place I know to talk about wargames. (This is my first post on this forum, though).

Any and all opinions are appreciated, as is patience with any naive questions. Thank you!

[paulderynck]

1. Probably. It's one of the best games ever made on WWII but without a lot of experience playing wargames, it would be a tall order. The good part is it enforces the rules so you can't go far astray.
2. Yes.
3. Warm and welcoming, but not too active. Questions will be answered though.
4. Yes to solo. An AI version has been in development for some time with varying opinions as to its final scope. My opinion is that it will only play the USSR in the 5 turn, 2 sided introductory scenario called Barbarossa.
5. There are some bugs but there is help here on confirming if it's a bug and possible workarounds. You can play a lot of turns before hitting a bug.
6. $50 is a steep discount from the original price. I've seen it for sale from time to time for less, but hard to know if those days are gone.

[Angeldust2]

Hello RedwoodForest,

1. Yes, it is probably not the best choice for a real newbie to explore the world of wargames. The game is not beginner friendly. In many ways, it can be considered the pinnacle of wargames, not the bottom of the ladder. Important: MWIF is the computer adaption of a boardgame of the 1980's. That board wargame has been developed through various editions. MWIF coding started in the early 2000's, so it feels probably a little bit outdated for younger guys, who grew up with internet and UI optimised games. To learn and to master MWIF will take a huge amount of dedication, determination and time.
2. No, there is no option for play against computer opponents, in order to learn the basics. There is an short introductory scenario "Barbarossa", intended to learn basics about land and air combat in MWIF. For that scenario only and only for the Soviet side, there is a computer opponent in development since many years. My opinion: It is doubtful, if it ever gets out of beta and even when, it is useless, no fun and will not really help to learn the game. On the other hand, MWIF is well suited to be played solitaire, there you play both sides, so basically you play yourself to learn the game. MWIF has lots of tools to learn the basics: Manuals (RAW=Rules as written, RAC=Rules as coded), shorter text tutorials (so you do not need to read the full rulebooks), interactive tutorials (mostly to learn to use the user interface) and video tutorials (>100 hours of video footage time, just to explain and demonstrate all phases). The easiest would be, you find somebody to guide you through this rules & tutorials hell and will get you started. But be warned: To play the full campaign from beginning to final victory, you might need rather years than weeks. WIF/MWIF is the classic monster game: Huge, overwhelming, exhausting, time consuming, but deeply satisfying, very high replayability. There is no better WW2 game on the strategic level.
3. The community is small and shrinking. But there a still 1-2 handful loyal players, many of them are very experienced, like real masters/champions of the game. Usually any questions will be answered within 24h.
4. Unfortunately not. In my opinion, development has stalled since several years now. Matrix or developer Steve may disagree. On the other hand, the game is almost complete. Just some minor optional rules are not fully coded yet and the one-map scenarios are not implemented.
5. No, the game is playable, you can start and finish it. There are some annoying bugs yet, but there are workarounds as well.
6. This game is far, far more worth than just 50$. It is, by far, the game with the best value for money. Sometimes it is discounted up to 80%, but even the regular price, which is high compared to lesser computer games, is a bargain! My favorite aspects of MWIF are all the computer functions, which make it so comfortable and much more enjoyable to play, compared to the boardgame. You don't need a big gaming room in your house with >30 square meter table space for all maps and playing aids, you don't need to worry about counters in the wrong position between gaming sessions or collecting dust, you don't need to meet physically with 5 players at the same place at the same time. Instead you play with gamers from other countries and continents, if you want. You exchange the game file and run your own impulses whenever it fits your timetable the best and at your preferred speed. Probably the most critical advantage of MWIF: The game enforces the rules, so there are no longer these endless and annoying rules discussions, which prevented most games to finish. This is also an important advantage over using a vassal module for WIF to play.

[rkr1958]

I've been playing Wargames since 1972 and have quite a collection that I've acquired and still own since then. My favorite historical secular subject is the military history of WW II. The vast majority of the 20+ board wargames that I own are on WW2, raging from squad level (e.g., Squad Leader) to corps/armies level (e.g., WiF, AH 3rd Reich, Hitler's War). I also have a fair collection of AH naval games (e.g., Midway, VITP, War at Sea, Wooden Ships & Iron Men).

My computer game collection includes: (1) MWIF, (2) Commander Europe at War - Grand Strategy (CEaW-GS), (3) AH's 3rd Reich, (4) Panzer Corps, (5) Strategic command, & several others.

I say all this to let you know that my gaming time is 95 - 99% exclusive to MWIF. My favorite wargames are WW II strategic level games and after MWIF no other game I've found will do. In that late 1970's through mid 1980's it was AH's 3rd Reich. Then life got in the way of my wargaming from the mid 1980's to the early 2000's when I found CEaW. That was my go to game until I acquired (i.e., purchased) MWIF, February 16, 2014. After which I've never looked back.

Now to be fair, though I was very familiar with hex based war games from squad to corps/army level; MWIF had a VERY steep learning curve in mechanics, tactics & strategies of play. I also must confess that I was motivated to climb that curve. Learning to play the game as I said has a steep learning curve. Learning to play the game adequately is much steeper. Learning to play the game well is scaling a sheer face cliff.

However; the reward is by far the most realistic global war game at the corps/army level I've have ever heard of. The tactics and strategies required to do well mirror those of historical tactics and strategies that proved their worth during the actual war. I have never seen a game that, at it's level, requires one to integrate land, air and naval forces as was done historically. And one that models (I say simulates) WW2 from Europe, to Asia, to the Pacific, to the Atlantic, to North Africa, to East Africa and to other theaters across the globe.

[RedwoodForest]

Thank you all for your responses, I appreciate it! I am in my early 30s, so I guess on the younger side of the spectrum here.

It sounds like the game has one developer who — based on browsing some older threads — is not in the best of health and has been quietly chipping away at this game in his spare time for many years. Solid AI would be a literal game changer for people like me, but I understand based on the history of the (board) game and intended audience that it was never a huge priority.

"On the other hand, MWIF is well suited to be played solitaire, there you play both sides, so basically you play yourself to learn the game." Is there a way to randomize your opponent's moves in any capacity, even with external means/tools, or do you need to truly play both sides against yourself? I've never attempted that before.

All in all, it sounds like a game that I would need to dedicate an enormous amount of time to and would likely be playing on my own for a significant period of time to learn the ropes before seeing if anyone would like to teach or play against a newbie. The grand scope of the game remains compelling; it really seems like a game you could play as a hobby unto itself for a lifetime. (From the WiF website: "It's not a game, it's a hobby in a box!"). While some of these answers give me pause, others downright excite me. I wouldn't want to start playing as the game is in its twilight years, but I'll sleep on it. The only other game I have on my radar is War in Spain coming in January, which looks incredible.

[rkr1958]

To be better informed you might wish to read through some AARs. The collection on on going and past AARs include both multi player and solo play AARs.

The majority of my play had and is solo. My approach is to fully immerse myself on the active or phasing side. When it comes to non phasing reactions often I ask myself from the phasing player's perspective what would I wish the non phasing player do, then do the opposite. When it's not obvious sometimes I'll come up with a probability distribution for the potential reaction and roll either a D10 or D100:to decide and add uncertainty from the non phasing side

I also like to play major powers from a counterfactual, simulation perspective and create tension among major powers allied on the same side.

I'm continually surprised by often I can surprise myself when I flip perspectives from side to side and look at the virtual board with that different perspective.

[Zovs]

There is also Dan's NOOBY Discord channel where he teaches MWiF.

[RedwoodForest]

There is also Dan's NOOBY Discord channel where he teaches MWiF.

Where can I find this Discord?

[RedwoodForest]

There is also Dan's NOOBY Discord channel where he teaches MWiF.

Where can I find this Discord?

[RedwoodForest]

To be better informed you might wish to read through some AARs. The collection on on going and past AARs include both multi player and solo play AARs.

The majority of my play had and is solo. My approach is to fully immerse myself on the active or phasing side. When it comes to non phasing reactions often I ask myself from the phasing player's perspective what would I wish the non phasing player do, then do the opposite. When it's not obvious sometimes I'll come up with a probability distribution for the potential reaction and roll either a D10 or D100:to decide and add uncertainty from the non phasing side

I also like to play major powers from a counterfactual, simulation perspective and create tension among major powers allied on the same side.

I'm continually surprised by often I can surprise myself when I flip perspectives from side to side and look at the virtual board with that different perspective.

This is helpful, thank you. The AARs seem interesting and give a better sense of what is possible.

[Centuur]

How to learn this monster?

First: watch the tutorials video's.
Second: start a Barbarossa scenario and ask lots and lots of questions in the forums. You see: there are no foolish questions, only foolish answers.
Third: use a basic game without a lot of optional rules to get a feeling of how things are done at first. And after you get a feeling after having done Barbarossa solitair a couple of times, simply start global war.

This game is so huge, even when playing against yourself, you will conclude that you have forgotten to do something or made a terrible mistake which the other side is now going to exploit.

Personally, I find that this game is best played against another human opponent. Netplay is the way to go for me. So if you have someone around who might be interested to learn the game with you, it's the best way to start having fun.

You will either love the game (and find your money very well spend) or hate it for being too difficult...

[RedwoodForest]

Regrettably, I don’t know a soul who is into wargames at all, so this would be a solo endeavor and eventually netplay with strangers.

May I ask how long turns tend to take? I’m 90% certain to buy this this week… it seems so fascinating. And huge.

[Zovs]

There is also Dan's NOOBY Discord channel where he teaches MWiF.

Where can I find this Discord?

Here is a link, just ask for Dan and he will get you set up with a teaching scenario.

https://discord.gg/GuY8h6QR

[RedwoodForest]

There is also Dan's NOOBY Discord channel where he teaches MWiF.

Where can I find this Discord?

Here is a link, just ask for Dan and he will get you set up with a teaching scenario.

https://discord.gg/GuY8h6QR

Thank you!

[paulderynck]

Regrettably, I don’t know a soul who is into wargames at all, so this would be a solo endeavor and eventually netplay with strangers.

May I ask how long turns tend to take? I’m 90% certain to buy this this week… it seems so fascinating. And huge.

There are 36 turns (unless one side has lost already) but each turn consists of on average 5 or 6 "impulses". An impulse can take an hour or longer. So to finish a full game would mean investing about 400 hours. But as you stated earlier, you are likely younger than many of us here. If you are mid-30s, that means I've been playing this game longer than you have been on the planet.

OTOH, in all likelihood, you have many more games in front of you than I have.

[juntoalmar]

"How to learn this monster?"

My answer to this is: gradually. Don't try to play/learn everything at once. Learn one thing (and ignore everything else) and move to the next step once it's clear.

1) Start a Barbarossa scenario with only basic rules (no optionals)
2) Read about land movement and supply, and play a couple of impulses only moving units. You will learn about movement costs, supply (if you get too far away from the HQ), turns vs impulses... basic stuff. It's hard to get lost here.
3) If weather hits, read about weather and how it affects movement/supply
4) Read about combat and do your first attacks. Ignore airplanes for now. You will learn about ratios, what the different results in the combat tables mean, how terrain affects combat, initiative...
5) Probably it would be the end of the turn by now. Ignore everything (hit OK a few times) and continue to the next turn
6) Read about airplanes, Ground Support and Ground Strike. Do a few land combats with airplanes (ignore air combat for now) and land rebase.
7) Read about air combat and do some air combats
...

and continue little by little. Every step is, actually, pretty easy to understand. Think that WiF is a boardgame, so all the rules, tables and die rolls are visible for the player. You can always check why things happened (unlike other wargames were you loose a 4:1 combat and have no clue why). The difficulty is the scale and the fact that there are hundreds of rules, but each of them are (generally) easy to understand.

And ask questions, of course

As someone else said, to me WiF is the best strategic WWII wargame ever. Is the computer version perfect at the moment? No. It's still the best and easiest way to learn and start playing World in Flames. Even paying full price when it was launched, it would have been the best wargame investment of my life (taking into consideration the hours of play). I have many 20€ games that (comparing the hours of play) are much more expensive.

I hope it helps.

[RedwoodForest]

I have purchased the game and installed the latest version - [PC] Beta Update v08.00.00.00. I continue to slowly work my way through the YouTube tutorial series. I joined the Discord server above. I'm quite excited to dive in. Thank you all, again! Well wishes to the developer -- based on the late September update, it sounds like his life was chaos for about half a year.