Timid Soviet AI Artillery

[Para87]

Having watched the recent Rendezvous with Destiny stream on SlitherineTV the Warsaw Pact Artillery AI seemed remarkably timid. This is something I've noticed in other streams as well. The NATO Player lays down withering Arty fires and receives the odd pinprick in return. I'm hard pressed to recall any instances of counter battery fire.

At the end of the Rendezvous with Destiny stream the Soviets had almost 3 times as many SP and Art pieces, 99 vs 38, in play and yet watching the turns you'd think it was the other way around. For example in the last turn I counted 28 NATO artillery strikes to the Soviets 5 which seems in line with previous turns and what I've witnessed in other scenarios. In fact I don't think the WP hit the West Germans with a single arty strike during their entire assault in the north, likewise zero counter battery fires.

Is there an explanation for this is or it something not quite working as it should for the AI?

[CapnDarwin]

For the counterbattery to work, the Soviet weapon-locating system has to detect a shooter within its range. The NATO system has a much better detection range. Also, for the Soviets to fire on enemy targets, they need to see an enemy unit generate a mission sent through the FSCC to trigger an artillery response. We can review the scenario and make sure there aren't any setup issues with the orders state of the Soviet guns.

[GiveWarAchance]

I don't have this game yet, but the Soviet artillery in Southern Storm is constant deluge of misery like a day of non-stop rain except it adds in suppression and vehicles blowing up here and there. This game looks very similar so it must use the same arty AI as Southern Storm? The artillery was so brutal that I would try to break off one or two precious platoons of tanks and Bradleys or something to circle around the battle and seek out the infernal Soviet artillery park. It was nice revenge if we were able to find them and blow them up. I use a different Soviet battle plan each time so I had no clue where the enemy arty was in those frantic backcountry search & destroy missions (or be destroyed sometimes) and risked not finding anything before the time ran out.

[Jagger2002]

I have only played two scenarios so far but Rus artillery is no longer brutal from my limited experience. More of a mouse than the King of battle. I suspect there might be something off.

[WildCatNL]

This game looks very similar so it must use the same arty AI as Southern Storm?

Similar, but with at least an additional year of development tweaks put into it:
- we retuned the artillery effects for HE and DPICM using open source effectiveness data
- 'hasty move' road columns are assumed to be spread out more (less vulnerable)
- a roll-the-dice counter-battery detection system has been replaced by more refined counter-battery radar system, with limited range and reduced precision at range
- artillery missions are prioritized based on the total known targets in the hex
- front line units call for fire support more often
- the player is given more control over which targets and target sizes are to be engaged by a specific artillery unit

[GiveWarAchance]

This game looks very similar so it must use the same arty AI as Southern Storm?

Similar, but with at least an additional year of development tweaks put into it:
- we retuned the artillery effects for HE and DPICM using open source effectiveness data
- 'hasty move' road columns are assumed to be spread out more (less vulnerable)
- a roll-the-dice counter-battery detection system has been replaced by more refined counter-battery radar system, with limited range and reduced precision at range
- artillery missions are prioritized based on the total known targets in the hex
- front line units call for fire support more often
- the player is given more control over which targets and target sizes are to be engaged by a specific artillery unit

That gives Hasty Move one way of actually being a safer way to travel to the front line.

For counter battery, we will have less range than the normal range circle? We will have to risk deploying the artillery units closer to the battle area to be able to reach the enemy arty. Is that how it works? I like to use counter battery setting on some of my arty units.

The last line "the player is given more control..." is that for manually using arty or for fine-tuning how FSCC chooses artillery targets? I usually leave arty & air to FSCC to do it for me except on a difficult attack mission when the enemy is piled up on the objectives I need to tell the arty to focus on those dense targets so they don't massacre my APCs trying to get infantry to the objectives which is very hard for me.

[WildCatNL]

For counter battery, we will have less range than the normal range circle? We will have to risk deploying the artillery units closer to the battle area to be able to reach the enemy arty. Is that how it works? I like to use counter battery setting on some of my arty units.

It depends, but especially for NATO, you have some freedom from being detected in the rear, as for opposing counter-battery fire to be successful, both the opposing counter-battery radar and the opposing counter-battery artillery need to be in range of your artillery, and Warsaw Pact counter-battery radar doesn't have great range. (In most, if not all, scenarios, the counter-battery radar is placed off-map, and the commander has no control over its position).

For you to use counter-battery artillery against the opponent, first check the range of your counter battery radar system. If you are on the defense, Warsaw Pact most likely will enter that range. If so, you can dedicate a artillery system capable of covering most of the counter-battery detection range to counter-battery duty. For quicker response, you can set the SOP for that artillery system to fire in direct support of the counter battery radar.
Do check that the counter battery artillery system does not have high thresholds for artillery targets as part of the Fire Support Group settings.

[WildCatNL]

The last line "the player is given more control..." is that for manually using arty or for fine-tuning how FSCC chooses artillery targets? I usually leave arty & air to FSCC to do it for me except on a difficult attack mission when the enemy is piled up on the objectives I need to tell the arty to focus on those dense targets so they don't massacre my APCs trying to get infantry to the objectives which is very hard for me.

It is the ability to set allowed target types and minimal target vehicle counts for an artillery unit to fire on while being managed by the FSCC.
During the orders phase, go to the Fire Support staff panel (TOC.Fire Support), check the Fire Support Assets tab, and click the Fire Support Group link shown above a horizontal table to targets. You can change target types, thresholds and priorities.

[GiveWarAchance]

Thanks WildCat for your detailed replies.

I like to set about half my artillery to counter battery to try and reduce the Soviet barrages. But I leave mortars on general use cause of shorter range.

I didn't know we could customize FSCC parameters. I always relied on my staff with blind faith. I will try adjusting the fire support staff panel next time. Thank you. I did like how the FSCC handled the limited air strikes targeting huge clumps of Soviet vehicles. And they were able to hit some support assets with arty far in the rear area, especially in your first Flashpoint game they left a lot of burning vehicles in the rear.

[Jagger2002]

I started the scenario "A Brief Moment of Time" today using the beta patch. As the Russians, the artillery hits the sweet spot. Much better artillery results than in my first two scenarios but not as severe as SS. The artillery is causing noticeable results that feels right. After I finish this scenario, I will go back to my two previous scenarios and see how they play.