AT Units and Shock Values

[StuccoFresco]

I'm trying my first scenario on the Soviet side, Sixth Army Strikes, six turns in so far. I've built a respectable defensive line with Infantry Regiments supported by AT units, but those AT units are quite weird imho. Many of them are quite big (Stack Size 4), have terrible defensive values (3), and a Shock Value of 0:1/2. The most powerful AT units are the 20th and 22nd Destroyer Brigades (atk8, def8), that however are Battalion-sized (stack size 2). I have no clue why the other units with the same exact stats are Regiment-sized and other are Battalion sized.

It also seems they don't reduce German Shock during combat at all. From what I read from the manual, Shock is divided among the Stack Size units, so even at Size 4 their value seems so low that using them is essentially useless. This seems... a bit punishing, since they basically provide no real benefit in battle while using up a lot of Stack space.

I've read the manual but there's no "0:1/2" value among the examples. What does 0:1/2 means?

Furthermore, I've opened the scenario with the editor but I haven't found any way to display, let alone modify, a unit Shock Value. If they are hardcoded, it would be nice to have a list somewhere, but the manual only makes a few examples (armor = 4, infantry = 0, etc) and I'd like a full list.

[Saint Ruth]

Hi,

The regular AT guns only give shock on defense, not on Attack, so 0:1/2 means there's 0 shock when attacking,
and it will halve the attackers shock.

Shock is divided the stack stack size IF some units are not shock capable - the reason for this is if for example you had your tanks advancing with foot infantry then the tanks lose their shock advantage as they had to advance at the same pace as the infantry. If those infantry are in trucks then they can move at the same speed as the tanks so the tanks keep their full shock.

Oh yeah, I see. In general armor is 4 all right, and infantry is 0.
On the right hand display it shows the shock of a unit.
Also if you right click a unit, it opens the unit details display, and in there on the top right it will explain the shock values
for that unit (if you move the cursor over hte shock icon).

For the shock in a battle, if you right click the battle, it'll show the shock odds and if oyu move the cursor over those values (in the top right), it'll give more info on how those values were calculated.

Cheers,
Brian

[Timian]

A little more info . . .

The AT Regiments (with a defense of 3 in Open) = 18x45mm AT Guns. Not that many, given a full strength German Panzer Battalion = 81 Panzers (mostly Mk-IIIH's).

As to the 20th and 22nd Destroyer Bde's . . . These are Anti-Tank Rifle Battalions (approx. 750 men each).

Hope this helps,


Don.

[StuccoFresco]

Oh ok so the manual is kinda outdated on that regard.

I guess the big size of AT units is not to "dilute" their "counter-shock" value since it also depends on Stack Size? So if I have an Infantry Regiment and an AT Regiment in the same hex, my defensive Shock Value will be (half the attacker's Shock)/2? If an armored unit with Shock 4 attacks me, I'll diminish that by only 1 no matter what?

EDIT: not sure it works like that. in the picture you can see the German AT units only providing 1 shock, it should be half my armored unit's Shock, so 2.



Is there a way to see the full list of Shock Values for every unit type? And eventually a way to modify it?

[StuccoFresco]

Ah wait it's 2 but divided by their stack size, which is 2 out of 6. Probably rounded to 1.

Ok it seems to work as intended, but again, regular AT units seem pretty bad at anti-tank stuff.

[Saint Ruth]

Mm... been looking at this and it seems to be a bug...
All the defending units have Shock values (even if value is 0).
The shock should only be reduced if units have no shock (the gray shock icon, not the black one).

So the Shock should be 4 / 2 = 2, not 3.

I'll fix it.

Thanks!
Brian

[StuccoFresco]

Glad to be of any help, maybe it's some one time oddity.

Oh sorry to insist, but are shock values moddable? I can't find them in the editor or in the data folder.