Hong Kong 1941

[Silvanski]

HONG KONG 1941

FOR HONOUR AND EMPIRE ALONE
Japan's invasion of the British Crown Colony of Hong Kong

Scenario design by Tim Hayes
Converted for TOAW III by Japlance
Converted for TOAW IV by Silvanski

Date: Dec. 8-26 1941
Location: Hong Kong
Map Scale: 2.5km per hex
Time Scale: full-day turns
Unit Scale: Company/Battalion
Length: 18 Turns

::PBEM::
::PO::

[wrhazen]

Hello, seems like I'm playing 8 years later than everyone else but I noticed an issue with the scenario. The scenario runs fine on the mainland and is quite fun and engaging. However, once I evacuated my forces from the mainland to Hong Kong island and began fortifying the ports and coastlines on like the 15th of December, the Japanese AI just shuffled around on the mainland until the end of the scenario, letting me win with an almost effortless victory despite the fact that they probably could have won if they had landed. I dont know if this is an issue with the scenario or the OPAWIV PO in general.

I can tell a lot of effort went into the scenario but this little issue unfortunately broke the PO for me as Britain.

[rhinobones]

A quick examination of the scenario reveals a number of reasons why the AI will not make an amphibious assault against Hong Kong.

1. There is only one Japanese supply point located in the North. By the time IJN troops move South they are down to a supply value of 1.
2. Japanese R/R destruction is set at 100% which destroys all R/R transportation and effectively cuts off the IJN from its supply source.
3. The AI will not conduct an amphibious operation when starved for supply.
4. AI rarely, if ever, conducts an amphibious operation unless the target hex contains a friendly supply point, contains a port and is not occupied by the enemy.

It’s an interesting little scenario well suited for a quick game against the AI. Maybe I can do some things to make it more enjoyable.

Regards, RhinoBones

[wrhazen]

I think I had noticed the AI's aversion to making amphibious assaults when I played the Cyprus scenario a few weeks ago. Same thing happened, I cleared the mainland and blocked all the ports and Turkey never landed despite having overwhelming numbers. Like you said, I don't think its the OP's fault. Maybe a house rule could be enacted about not blocking off the port hexes or leaving a few empty where the Japanese would have historically landed.

Best of luck on the new scenario

[rhinobones]

The original scenario was evidently created sometime before TOAW III and was subsequently converted to TOAW III and TOAW IV. There are quite a few details which need massaging for TOAW IV but the big problem is the Objective Track.

The original scenario Objective Track had the IJN forces moving South, making an amphibious assault and occupying Hong Kong island. No objectives or supply points were assigned for the IJN formations to mass at the debarkation ports and assault enemy ports of entry. Maybe this worked in the original version of TOAW, but in TOAW IV the AI needs more direction in the form of Objective Tracks. The original design is shown below. It does not appear to have been altered when the scenario was converted to TOAW III and IV.

Original Track 1.JPG (254.38 KiB) Viewed 338 times

Objective Track 1 is being revised so that IJN forces’ primary objectives are the debarkation ports (Victoria Harbor to the West and Yau Tong to the East). IJN occupation of either port triggers a switch from Objective Track 1 to Objective Track 2. In AI vs AI games this happens around turns 6 to 9.

Objective Track 1.JPG (278.24 KiB) Viewed 338 times

Objective Track 2 is designed specifically to order IJN formations to move to the debarkation ports and make the assault on Hong Kong island. The assault is conducted as planned in AI vs AI games when the Allied AI leaves target ports unattended.

Objective Track 2.JPG (322.54 KiB) Viewed 338 times

The problem remains that the AI will not assault occupied ports/hexes and the assault, when made, is made piece meal as the IJN formations do not typically consolidate before attacking. Maybe something can be added between tracks 1 and 2 to resolve the problem. I’m open to suggestions for this problem and other improvements.

Everything shown here is from the early exploration and test phase and should not be taken as a final product. There are pending changes to Theater Recon, supply, R/R destruction and Theater Options which need to be analyzed.

Regards, RhinoBones

[wrhazen]

The original scenario was evidently created sometime before TOAW III and was subsequently converted to TOAW III and TOAW IV. There are quite a few details which need massaging for TOAW IV but the big problem is the Objective Track.

The original scenario Objective Track had the IJN forces moving South, making an amphibious assault and occupying Hong Kong island. No objectives or supply points were assigned for the IJN formations to mass at the debarkation ports and assault enemy ports of entry. Maybe this worked in the original version of TOAW, but in TOAW IV the AI needs more direction in the form of Objective Tracks. The original design is shown below. It does not appear to have been altered when the scenario was converted to TOAW III and IV.


Original Track 1.JPG


Objective Track 1 is being revised so that IJN forces’ primary objectives are the debarkation ports (Victoria Harbor to the West and Yau Tong to the East). IJN occupation of either port triggers a switch from Objective Track 1 to Objective Track 2. In AI vs AI games this happens around turns 6 to 9.


Objective Track 1.JPG


Objective Track 2 is designed specifically to order IJN formations to move to the debarkation ports and make the assault on Hong Kong island. The assault is conducted as planned in AI vs AI games when the Allied AI leaves target ports unattended.


Objective Track 2.JPG


The problem remains that the AI will not assault occupied ports/hexes and the assault, when made, is made piece meal as the IJN formations do not typically consolidate before attacking. Maybe something can be added between tracks 1 and 2 to resolve the problem. I’m open to suggestions for this problem and other improvements.

Everything shown here is from the early exploration and test phase and should not be taken as a final product. There are pending changes to Theater Recon, supply, R/R destruction and Theater Options which need to be analyzed.

Regards, RhinoBones

Looks like you've done an amazing job of analyzing this... I figured it probably had something to do with the computer's aversion to naval invasions. Are you trying to fix/make a new scenario for this? If so I'd love to play it when its finished if that helps to spot bugs and such. Thanks for taking a look at this!

[rhinobones]

... I figured it probably had something to do with the computer's aversion to naval invasions. Are you trying to fix/make a new scenario for this? If so I'd love to play it when its finished if that helps to spot bugs and such.

I’ve tinkered with the scenario for longer than I should but have not found a way to force the Japanese PO to conduct an amphibious assault on defended objectives. If anyone has a magic cure I’d like to hear about it. The best I can suggest is when it comes time for the Japanese PO to make the assault you switch the Japanese from computer to manual control, set up the amphibious attacks, move follow-on troops to the embarkation ports, return the Japanese to computer control and let the turn play out. May have to do this more than once since the PO isn’t very smart about massing troops and supporting assaults.

Except for the briefing, changes are finished but I hesitate to post the scenario for general distribution. Send me an email address via Private Mail and I’ll send you copy. Nothing has been changed for playing solo from the Japanese side or the PBM game, only playing solo from the British side.

Regards

[sPzAbt653]

I’m open to suggestions ...

Exclude the target hexes until Track 2 or 3 is triggered?

Amusing story: Playing a scenario where the PO is not scheduled to perform any Amphibious Assaults. Some minor Greek PO units reconstituted in N. Africa, and embarked across the Mediterranean and landed [Amphibious Assaulted] on the empty Greek coast [not at ports]. So you have to laugh, in a case where we don't try to get this to happen, it does, yet when we try everything, it won't.

Regarding this case, the Greek PO units have no Objectives in N. Africa, so it was trying to get back to its' Objectives, which makes sense. So maybe you can try assigning formation[s] objectives on the other side of the water only. [I have tried this in the past, it is no guarantee of success].

I also have the idea that Elmer will not attempt Amphibious Assaults if there is no Supply at the destination. Keep this in mind as a possible way to assist him making a move.

[sPzAbt653]

Another situation:
In desperation to force the PO to make a D-Day invasion in a Normandy scenario, I did this:

Created 'assault' formations made up of units with the Guerilla secondary icon.
Ignore losses, Berzerker.
Schedule them to arrive around the beach areas on turn 1, with objectives at ports.
Have follow up/reinforcement 'normal' icon units arrive at the ports.
Once Elmer captures inland objectives, remove those G units and have regular icon mirror units arrive.

It worked, and allowed me to play as the Germans against an Allied D-Day, which was the point.

[rhinobones]

Regarding this case, the Grek PO units have no Objectives in N. Africa, so it was trying to get back to its' Objectives, which makes sense. So maybe you can try assigning formation[s] objectives on the other side of the water only. [I have tried this in the past, it is no guarantee of success].

Interesting story about the Greek units deploying in N. Africa. I’ve seen it happen when a “R” reconstitution hex hasn’t been assigned. Usually not a good thing, but if a designer wanted a bit of chaos, it could be a good thing.
For Japanese Objective Track #3 I tried revising the Japanese PO objectives so that the #1 objective was the amphibious target hex. Sounded like a good suggestion but no, the PO just won’t attack a defended hex. Japanese PO units were already set on berserk/ignore losses with a PO supply point in the target. Still a no go.
Wish the amphibious assault worked more like para drops.

There has been no change to the British PO or PBM games, only the Japanese PO is impacted. My only suggestion to force an amphibious attack is that during a Japanese PO game once the Japanese take Victoria Harbor and HMS Thracian is withdrawn; the player temporarily switch Japanese control from computer to human control and set up the cross channel amphibious assaults. After returning the Japanese to computer control the PO will conduct the attacks. Three objective tracks are used for the Japanese PO.

Objective Track #1
Japanese formations will attack south with the embarkation ports of Victoria Harbor and Kung Tong Tsai as the final objectives.

Track 1.JPG (195.31 KiB) Viewed 45 times

Objective Track #2
Taking Victoria Harbor triggers the withdraw of HMS Thracian and switches to Objective Track #2. This track runs for a few turns allowing the PO to concentrate Japanese units at Victoria Harbor and Kung Tong Tsai. The Japanese PO however, is not very smart about concentrating forces and may need help from the British player before the amphibious assault is possible. Note that the PO is not very good at sinking HMS Thracian therefore it needs to be withdrawn, otherwise, it can be used to slaughter the Japanese assault boats. It doesn’t show in the graphic, but Kung Tong Tsai is Objective #1 for several Japanese formations. I have also added a second port hex to both embarkation ports to assist the PO.

Track 2.JPG (250.42 KiB) Viewed 45 times

Objective Track #3
After a short random delay Track #2 will switch to Track #3. This is the final Japanese assault on Hong Kong. As the initial assault troops move inland the Japanese PO seems to be pretty good at transporting follow-on units to the front.

Track 3.JPG (175.13 KiB) Viewed 45 times

Appreciate the help. Assigning Objective #1 to the target hex seems like a good idea, I’ll file it away for future scenarios.

Best Regards, RhinoBones

[wrhazen]

Been a minute, but I appreciate the help on this. Its funny how you can do so much with OPAWIV, but the AI's finnickiness and aversion to risks can squander a perfectly good scenario. I wonder if maybe making a house rule that no British units may sit in the port hexes would allow the Japanese PO to land its own forces? Or perhaps even just leaving one port hex open where the Japanese historically landed? Its not ideal, but perhaps it makes the scenario playable. I haven't done a massive amount of interaction with the AI though so who knows if it would work.

[sPzAbt653]

Assigning Objective #1 to the target hex seems like a good idea, I’ll file it away for future scenarios.

If spending time trying things, might be worth it to remove supply from the embarkation area. The theory is that units out of supply will attempt to get back into supply by amphibious assault.

Also, for that Greek unit example above, there were no Greek objectives on coasts, all were inland. So that is also interesting, and befuddling.

[cathar1244]

Wondering. In a recently posted Leningrad scenario, the designer used invisible terrain tiles for certain game effects.

Could an invisible road or other terrain tile be used to connect the island to the mainland along routes a landing force would take? Terrain would look like water but be crossable. Kludgy to be sure.

Or give the Japanese units fording equipment and make the water hexes between the island and the mainland all shallow water?