Just a small pushback from me on the earlier post. One of the original principles of ELO was the following:
If your position is impossible, you are encouraged to offer to resign so both players can take on other games.
I can't see the point of continuing to the bitter end if that end is not in doubt. Perhaps if players want to do that it should be agreed at the beginning.
Some of my most enjoyable games have been in the balance until the very last turn, so I'm not one for quitting lightly.
The question is in what the player consider to be his goal. If you are playing as Axis against stronger player the goal can be be to hold at least end 1945 or 1946. If you play as allies against stronger player, the goal could be save USSR or at least UK. Something like this.
I wish to support Dmitry's view that it depends on each player's goal. Dmitry and I currently have a game underway in which at its start we both understood that his skill and experience far exceeded mine and I had no realistic chance of victory. To make the game interesting for him I agreed to play to end of game or until he defeated China, USSR, India and UK. My goal within the game is to deny him. But my primary goal is to benefit from watching a style of play which I will never achieve but will benefit me both strategically and tactically in future games. Personally, I believe this approach of setting goals when skill levels are far different is a good approach to matches.
HarrySmith (Axis) lost to DmitryN (Allies) Decisive Victory
Game concluded Nov 44 with total defeat of Axis forces.
A couple of good battlegrounds with an Interesting battle in Hawaii and some in Russia.
Basically outplayed in all scenarios with Italians surrendering 43 sometime and Japan around the end of that year.
Japan bogged down in China without making good headway. Germany getting to Moscow gates but couldnt go on from there and held down in Southern Russia.
[ELOs Ended]
ThunderLizard11 (axis) [WIN] v. boudi (alllies) [LOSS] - boudi resigned Jan 43. Good progress by allies in N. Africa but troubles in Russia where Stalingrad about to be surrounded and all of Caucasus captured with no Russian defense. Japan has Chungking and almost taken Australia. Boudi returned a few turns a week towards the end.
ThunderLizard11 (axis) [WIN] v. HARRIS45 (alllies) [LOSS] - Harris resigned June 44. Allies tried a Europe first stratgey and made a big landing in Southwest France which was stalled out. Meanwhile, Rusia was on the ropes with only Moscow left of the three capitals. Japan ran rampant with Chungking, Australia and NZ taken. Harris returned several turns/day and was a fun and challening player.
[ELO Started]
ThunderLizard11 (axis) v. HARRIS45 (alllies)
Last edited by ThunderLizard11 on Sun Dec 07, 2025 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[ELOs Ended]
ThunderLizard11 (axis) [WIN] v. HARRIS45 (alllies) [LOSS] - Harris resigned July 42. Axis rampaged through Russia reaching the Urals and outskirts of Moscow. Japan on the march is Asia about to take Australia. Excellent turn return by Harris of 3-4/day - quickly becoming a strong player!
ThunderLizard11 (allies) [WIN] v. arikogut (axis) [LOSS] - Axis resigns May '44. Strong allied landing in S. France and Italy out of war. Russians on the march. Strong play by arikogut.
[ELOs Started]
ThunderLizard11 (allies) v. HARRIS45 (axis)
ThunderLizard11 (allies) v. arikogut (axis)
ELO ended: Old Shane [Axis] loss vs. Pekkavilamoura [Allies] win.
A real race to victory game even if not that scenario. Nail-biting from start until the end. Axis went all-in for Russia. I hoped to force at least some of those many elite units to leave Russia to defend France by an early Overlord, but no, they just stayed there, continuing to kill and take territory.
And they did, everything except Moscow was lost and Axis went further south taking all of Middle East and threatening Egypt from the East.
But dispersing all those (elite!) units all over the vast Reich and leaving the West relatively unguarded was a gamble.
So in the end Axis did take Moscow in May 1945, the very next round Berlin fell.
Re: elite - I've never seen such an extensive use of elite units. Practically ALL Axis units were elite. It was an interesting thing to observe because yes, they are very effective but the are also very expensive.
Thanks Old Shane for a great game and excellent turn returns, we often played multiple turns per day. Rematch anytime!
Yes, I pushed it about two turns too far. The plan was to pivot from Russia to take back the West. But you are right – was too overextended to hold on to Berlin long enough. You almost took Finland from me. But that probably hurt you as much as me! I liked your Hawaii defense. It was partially responsible for delaying US entry until June 1942. But you mauled my fleet and kept the pressure on my retreat all the way back to Japan. IJN never recovered. You by-passed several islands and ended up holding Southern Japan before I could finish off China. I got unlucky in DEI which you expertly took advantage of and held out for a while (I think the weather was quite shit too). Your landings in Korea and China were frustrating! I was just starting to contain the breakouts with the returning China victors when Berlin fell. I hope you are ok with the resignation as the timeline to finish Japan might have been interesting. Happy to give you a rematch! My next game must be as Axis though. I have two others as Allies going.
1. UK can use LRATs to attack the Norwegian coast at any point, but they can only use Special Forces to do so. Other units must follow the normal rules.
2. one time, the USA and UK can use LRATs to land in Algeria (Operation Torch) as long as all of England is under Allied control
3. If Japan controls Hawaii, they are allowed to use LRATs to invade the US west coast. (Didn't use this addition yet, but I guess it's fair to also allow the USA to use LRATs to take back Hawaii in that case)
4. If Germany controls all of England (including Northern Ireland), they are allowed to use LRATs to invade the US east coast. (Didn't use this addition yet, but I guess it's fair to also allow the USA & UK to use LRATs to take back Britain in that case)
5. To make normal amphibious attacks a little less vulnerable, they can't be attacked at sea by any unit (naval or bomber) unless there are no other combat ships within 2 hexes of the transport. However, using ships/subs either in port or out of port to ambush incoming transports is fine.
6. AT can't be attacked while in port by any naval units (including subs, but it's fine to use bombers, though maybe this will be adjusted if it proves this is too easy as a counter)
7. Japan can't DoW on Communist China.
I'm expecting to lose against this excellent player but I think you learn more from your losses than you do from your wins.
The new ranking system starts on January 1. I will look after it and publish a table every month. We should continue to use the ELO game thread to post games and results. (I am still looking for a volunteer 'reserve' to share the password in case I disappear. PM me.).
1. System starts on Jan 1, but you can enter the results of a current ongoing game if both players agree.
2. Everybody starts on 1000 points except the top 5 players (agreed earlier) who start on 1030.
3. If a player doesn't play for a year they drop 3% of their score per year of absence. After 3 years they are deleted.
4. If a player loses a game but lasts into 1946 or beyond they gain a small bonus (6 points against a higher ranked player, 5 points for an equal ranked player and 4 points against a lower ranked player).
I should also be able to publish separate rankings tables for Axis players and Allied players, but I might only do this every second month.
[For any technical geeks out there, we are using a standard Elo formula with a K factor of 32. No draws. No 'bands' or 'levels'. A typical win (pre 1946) against an evenly matched opponent will boost your score by 16 and drop theirs by 16. However, a win against a lower ranked opponent may boost your score by as little as 4-5 points. The best way to boost your ranking is to beat a higher ranked player!]
Thank you for volunteering to maintain the ELO rankings Chris. I know it's a lot of work. You are much appreciated.
To make your job easier, let us know if there is a certain format you would like for game notifications. Also, which campaigns should be included in the ELO. For example, 1939 World at War and 1939-45 Race to Victory are probably standard. But any others?
Start of ELO Game:
ELO game started 12/16/25
Campaign: 1939 World at War
LoneRunner (Allies) vs Old_Shane (Axis)
Optional to add information about the game like mods
End of ELO Game:
ELO game ended, start date 12/16/25
Old_Shane (Won) vs LoneRunner (Lost)
Optional to add information about the game like in-game end date, campaign description. I really enjoy everyone's colorful commentary on finished games.
The start date should be included on end of ELO game so that Chris can easily match up the start of an ELO game with the end of the ELO game. Anyway, that's my two cents on notifications. Chris will probably have a better idea of what he requires.
Last edited by LoneRunner on Thu Dec 18, 2025 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
firsteds wrote: Thu Dec 18, 2025 7:54 pm
Actually let's keep it very simple.
New game started: X (Allies) v Y (Axis). Scenario is optional. ALWAYS put Allies first.
Result: X (Allies) either WINNER or LOSER v Y (Axis). ALWAYS put the Allies first.
I don't need to know the date for the system I am using.
Thanks everyone! Don't worry if you use a different format - I will work it out. I am actually looking forward to this.
firsteds
Thank you first ends for volunteering to do this .It would be great to get a monthly update on rankings.
My only suggestion would be perhaps a slightly broader initial start scoring.
Top 5 plus 40,
Top 6 to 10 plus 30
Top 11 to 15 plus 20
Top top 16 to 20 plus 10
