Where do swapped devices go when upgrading/downgrading devices?

[melvi]

While remaking Columnas from their subunits I am trying to “unify” the devices each of them are using as infantry squads (not historical at all but…). So I am trying some columnas only use MAOC squads, other POUM squads, others CNT squads, etc. As I don’t have the kind of squads I’d like to use for every Columnas sent to the frontlines, because I am trying to avoid sending villager volunteers, students and women squads to the frontlines, I am parking some Columnas in the back full of villagers or students or women while they wait for subunits that will arrive later so I free MAOC and POUM squads mainly to use in combat units.
Because of this I have the Levante N.1 Columna de Milicia sat down in Murcia hex 117,120 waiting for her Sappers subunit. So I want to free the 46 MAOC squads she is using to put them in any other Columna going to the front. Levante N.1 Columna de Milicia has 57 MAOC devices in his TOE, and she has 46 and is missing 11, while there are only 18 MAOC squads in the pool and none in RSVs, and I need those MAOC devices somewhere else.

where did devices go01.jpg (684.79 KiB) Viewed 380 times

For this purpose, I swapped them for students squads.

where did devices go02.jpg (635.03 KiB) Viewed 380 times

This way I thought I would have 18 + 46 MAOC devices in my pool to use in other Columna. But when I tried to swapp them back to check if my maths where rigth I found this:

where did devices go03.jpg (632.86 KiB) Viewed 380 times

So the question is: Where did the MAOC devices go? Not to the pool… unless is there a turn delay for swapped devices to come back to the pool?, that could be or is it only the device info screen and the upgrade/downgrade screen not refreshing and they are there? That could be too. I could wait a turn to see if they appear in the pool. But as I have figth here and there, and some RSV trying to get MAOC devices to distribute them I wouldn’t be sure of the maths. Should be swapped devices shown back in the pool instanly and ready to use somewhere else?.

Regards:
Melvi
PD: I am attaching the savefile if you wanna check. If you think it is a bug some forum admin could move the thread to the tech support subforum.

swapping devices.zip

(1.28 MiB) Downloaded 2 times

[Thogode]

What is the composition of the RSV unit?
RangerJoe has shown that replaced components could go into an RSV unit.
If this is the case, you first have to disband the RSV unit.

[Kereguelen]

Squad upgrades use (consume) the manpower of the squads that are upgraded for the new upgraded squads.

Not completely sure from Melvi's post if this is here the case, but this would explain why there're no 'old' squads (the squads that were upgraded) in the pool or elsewhere.

[Dali101]

MAOC Squads could have "disappeared" in two places.
Either you have them in RSV units that you did not disband.
Or the engine used them to supplement other units.
(I see that you have replacement ON enabled)

It could also be a combination of both variants.

Don't look at the number 18. That is the daily production of this type of squad.
It is set to 540 per month in main SCN001.

[melvi]

MAOC Squads could have "disappeared" in two places.
Either you have them in RSV units that you did not disband.
Or the engine used them to supplement other units.
(I see that you have replacement ON enabled)

It could also be a combination of both variants.

That’s fine, it could be. No RSV created holding MAOC milicias devices when I did the swapp, but they can have gone another units.

Don't look at the number 18. That is the daily production of this type of squad.
It is set to 540 per month in main SCN001.

Man now you don’t tell me that!
I am building on all my strategy about using this or that infantry squad device checking the avaliabilty and the future avaliability info in the device info screen, paired with the posibility to upgrade this to that or downgrade this other to that other.
Besides that what you say may be incidentally true for some devices, but not for other ones.

where did devices go04.jpg (574.22 KiB) Viewed 285 times

It can be that for CNT militias there are 10 in the pool and that 10x30 is almost 305.
It can be that for the UGT militias there are 12 left in the pool and that 12x30 is almost 350
No way the 91 POUM militias left in the pool are dayly produced, there should be a montly production of 91 x30 =2730 instead the 70 per month the device info screen says.

where did devices go05.jpg (507.95 KiB) Viewed 285 times

Same not possible with village volunteers 28 remaining in pool, 28 x 30=844 instead the 102 per month produced and for student militia 143 in pool , 143x30=4290 instead the 55 per month produced.

I really hope the line in the device info screen that says “pool” is the amount of that device remaining unused in the pool at the time you check it. My concern is that if “remaining in pool” info of that screen is updated when you do a swapp or there is some delay between performing the swapp and getting that info correct ( or that there is a bug/mechanic that makes the swapped devices spent/wasted/dissapear).
Regards:
Melvi

[Dali101]

I'm telling you...
because I set it up like this after 3 years of testing.

You have more POUM squads because you haven't exhausted the pool set for the first day of the war yet.

When you exhaust them to zero (thighs like machine guns, mortars, etc.), only daily production will be visible there.

If you completely disable replacemen OFF. then in two days you will have 36 MAOC squads
(maybe a little more if some come back as healed...)

[RangerJoe]

I showed that the replaced devices could go into RSV units but the new squad devices are a reorganization of the existing manpower, changing equipment, and so on. Some squad upgrades/downgrades will give extra squads which go into RSV units while others give fewer squads so instead of having 24 squads of the new type, you may have 18 squads of the new types. If you look at an infantry squad device, it will show a load cost which I equate to the number of men or women. So a device having a load cost of 8 which switching to a load cost of 10 will need more manpower so they will have fewer squads after the switch.

I hope this helps.

[melvi]

I'm telling you...
because I set it up like this after 3 years of testing.

You have more POUM squads because you haven't exhausted the pool set for the first day of the war yet.

When you exhaust them to zero (thighs like machine guns, mortars, etc.), only daily production will be visible there.

And thats exactly what i want to see. When devices in pool reach 0 you have 0 avaliable and you will need to wait for next day to have another "build rate" / 30. ( although i would prefer to see "pool"= 0 and knowing that tomorrow ill have "build rate" / 30 avaliable). So what you said is that if i see exactly "build rate"/ 30 in "pool" , the pool is depleted what it is absolutely fine with me.
Besides your answer solve another question i had about how was "build rate" handled if "build rate" amount would appear first of each month or if it would be distributed among the days of the month, now you tell me is the second way.

If you completely disable replacemen OFF. then in two days you will have 36 MAOC squads
(maybe a little more if some come back as healed...)

And thats another thing i would expect to work as you say ( but i cant afford to do that atm ).

I showed that the replaced devices could go into RSV units but the new squad devices are a reorganization of the existing manpower, changing equipment, and so on. Some squad upgrades/downgrades will give extra squads which go into RSV units while others give fewer squads so instead of having 24 squads of the new type, you may have 18 squads of the new types. If you look at an infantry squad device, it will show a load cost which I equate to the number of men or women. So a device having a load cost of 8 which switching to a load cost of 10 will need more manpower so they will have fewer squads after the switch.

I hope this helps.

And that solve another doubt i had about what were doing those RSV created when swapping squads/devices or the squads/devices missing in the unit after the swapp, they are the leftovers ( or the missing amount) of different sizes between the squad/device in the unit and the size of the squad/device in the pool that is going to be exchanged. Thankee.


Regards:
Melvi

PD umhh is something about this mentioned in the manual? i mean... the pool depleted showing exactly "build rate"/30 that would mean pool = 0 and that the "build rate" is distributed as per day ( "build rate"/30). Cause if it is not somewhere i would add it in the appropiated paragraph

[RangerJoe]

You are most welcome.

A further clarification, if you end up with more squad devices of the new type than the TO&E calls for, you will get another RSV unit with the excess squad devices. They can be replacements for other units or disbanded into the stockpiles.

Also when upgrading infantry squad devices, you do NOT need to have any of the new squads in the stockpiles, you can just upgrade the old squad devices to the new squad devices.

[melvi]

Also when upgrading infantry squad devices, you do NOT need to have any of the new squads in the stockpiles, you can just upgrade the old squad devices to the new squad devices.

Umhhh... umhhh how is this handled????? when swapping from old to new there wont be any of the new kind in the pool sustracted???? how do i pay the cost of the upgrade then? resources only ( i mean no manpower)?.
I think when i am swapping devices i get the new ones discounted from the new ones pool amount and the old ones added to the old ones pool amount????
Regards:
Melvi

[RangerJoe]

Also when upgrading infantry squad devices, you do NOT need to have any of the new squads in the stockpiles, you can just upgrade the old squad devices to the new squad devices.

Umhhh... umhhh how is this handled????? when swapping from old to new there wont be any of the new kind in the pool sustracted???? how do i pay the cost of the upgrade then? resources only ( i mean no manpower)?.
I think when i am swapping devices i get the new ones discounted from the new ones pool amount and the old ones added to the old ones pool amount????
Regards:
Melvi

This is not like WITP:AE. The devices just have to be available and there is a supply cost. Plus the base has to have at least 5k in supplies. There is nothing to do with the pools unless you are swapping other devices, swapping squad types does not deal with the pools.

[Dali101]

With infantry squads it's not that simple.

There are upgrade lines. Every infantry squad in the game has an upgrade line.
(that is, if it is not produced throughout the war, such as a flamethrower team).

As part of these upgrades, you do not have to have new squads in the pools (it's like Ranger Joe writes to you).
The same soldiers are simply modernized and improved, let's say.

Then there is the second way. Some types of squads (like MAOC) are combined in certain groups (so-called Swap number).
You can swap Volunters for Vomens, for example.
Here it depends on the next upgrade line. If it is outside the ipgradovoz line, then squads from pools are really used.
I emphasize that this is not an upgrade, but a manual swap within one swap group.

These groups were created so that the player has some flexibility in filling new units. And use the pools of, let's say, "cheap infantry".

[Dali101]

With infantry squads it's not that simple.

There are upgrade lines. Every infantry squad in the game has an upgrade line.
(that is, if it is not produced throughout the war, such as a flamethrower team).

As part of these upgrades, you do not have to have new squads in the pools (it's just like Ranger Joe tells you).
The same soldiers are simply modernized and improved, let's say.

Then there is the second way. Some types of squads (like MAOC) are combined in certain groups (so-called Swap number).
You can swap Volunters for Vomens, for example.
Here it depends on the next upgrade line. If it is outside the upgrade line, then squads from the pools will really be used.
I emphasize that this is not an upgrade, but a manual swap within one swap group. Which is performed by the player.

These groups (for both sides) were created so that the player has some flexibility when filling new units. And he used pools of, let's say, "cheap infantry".