Overpowered Invasions

[LoneRunner]

Upon returning to World at War after three years I've noticed that invasions have gotten out of hand. I was able to use level 5 landing craft to obliterate anything on coasts and islands without losses. Like using invulnerable futuristic rockets.

I would only incur losses if I actually landed troops on the now empty coast hex. But sometimes I wouldn't even bother landing units. Because I had plenty of credits and high logistics, I'd bring the unit back to a friendly harbor, reload, then search for another unit to kill.

On top of that, a level 5 landing craft has only a 50% chance of taking damage from a naval attack.

As a result, in my last game that the entire French coast was practically undefended except for coast guns. Yeah, makes sense if every unit you post on a coastal hex is marked for death.

Historically, that doesn't make sense. And I think it hurts the game.

[James Taylor]

As the USA, this is the first tech of concentration(2 chits) that I go for. Using cheap amphibs like calvary and anti-air along with a decent level of logistics, there is almost nowhere a coastal Axis unit can survive.

Hit with the cheap stuff first and follow with special forces so you can immediately get them back on the water next turn and you have a naval juggernaut striking fear into any Axis region accessible by sea.

[petedalby]

I think you've just added weight to the original post.

[Umeu]

Upon returning to World at War after three years I've noticed that invasions have gotten out of hand. I was able to use level 5 landing craft to obliterate anything on coasts and islands without losses. Like using invulnerable futuristic rockets.

I would only incur losses if I actually landed troops on the now empty coast hex. But sometimes I wouldn't even bother landing units. Because I had plenty of credits and high logistics, I'd bring the unit back to a friendly harbor, reload, then search for another unit to kill.

On top of that, a level 5 landing craft has only a 50% chance of taking damage from a naval attack.

As a result, in my last game that the entire French coast was practically undefended except for coast guns. Yeah, makes sense if every unit you post on a coastal hex is marked for death.

Historically, that doesn't make sense. And I think it hurts the game.

Yeah LRATs are overpowered and they break the game.

That's why I tried the houserules without LRATs, I think it makes the game more fun. I did also consider a rule that limits the amphibious tech to lvl 3, since lvl 4 and especially lvl 5 just makes them way too strong. But since these changes mostly affect allies, more testing is needed to see what else would be required for balance.

amphibous assaults should just take damage in combat, and none or very little when landing. I guess currently the landing similates the damage in combat I guess, but it's just silly to have an LRAT land in Rome or London without (many) losses, while you suffer 60% losses when landing in an empty village somewhere in the Pacific.

But these things seem to have been known for years, and never changes have been made. So I guess houserules is the only option.

[LoneRunner]

Here's a more extreme use of landing craft that makes no sense.

Level 5 transports have a 50% chance of evading damage from naval or air attack. The manual doesn't mention air attack but I've tested it and yes, 50% of air attacks appear to deal no damage. Makes no sense. Why would a transport be harder to hit than a destroyer? During the battle for the Philippines Japan lost an entire fleet attempting to slip battleships into the midst of American transports. In WaW the result would be meh. Two hits are usually required to sink a transport so with 50% misses, it would require three battleships to sink one transport. A waste of resources.

Most players surround their carriers with a ring of battleships. However, battleships are expensive, 350 mps, and practically irreplaceable, requiring 15 build turns. A better option may be to surround your carriers with level 5 long-range transports. At level 5 logistics and production tech, you can build a corps and load it onto a long-range transport for less than 150mps. A ring of transports would be tough to break through because 50% of the attacks would result in no damage. And for the cost of a few cheap transports, you've saved your expensive battleships for the counter-attack.

Fleets using transports to shield battleships and carriers from attack? The situation is so bizarre that the game loses touch with reality.

[Umeu]

transports don't have ZoC though, so you need a big ring, otherwise just displacing one transport gives you a path into the carriers. Also Transports don't have the surprise attack value, which is such a big annoyance for me. I know that ship is there, but because I don't have LoS into it, I have no choice but to eat the ambush/surprise attack... That just feels so bad every time. but I guess in a niche situation it would be usable. It does feel like win-more, and if you're able to do that, you're likely winning anyway. The evasion is definitely unnecessary, I agree.

[LoneRunner]

Thanks for the response Umeu. You are right, a defensive line of transports would only work in niche situations, like the Mediterranean or among DEI islands, where an attack is restricted through narrow access. However, I'm concerned that such a use of landing craft is even plausible.

I was considering requesting a fix but I hesitate to ask Bill or Hubert to correct another playability problem. Their support of WaW has been outstanding. They've provided probably hundreds of updates. And they have been happy to work with us. Other companies, who shall remain nameless, update their games with expensive DLC. Fury's support is free. Which is why I support them by buying most of their games even though I don't play them all.

Maybe we can fix gameplay issues with mods or house rules. For example, I liked your idea to limit transport upgrades with a house rule. The transport issue might be solved with a house rule that amphibious transports can't be upgraded beyond level 2. Probably other gameplay issues could be handled the same way.

[Umeu]

It should be level 3 imo (Japan needs it, and lvl 1+2 are too weak still), but otherwise I agree, a houserule can likely fix it for MP games.

another potential rule could be to ban the use of the cruise function on LRATs.