WiS players: do you recommend WiTP:AE?

[vinnland]

Hi all,

War in spain is one of my fav games right now. I like this engine and the level of play more than WiTE2.

For people who have played WiS and WiTP:AE, how does this game compare? would you recommend that I should play that game too?

[bradfordkay]

Are you more interested in land warfare or naval campaigns? WITP/AE is not anywhere near as well developed in the land war as is WiS, but it excels with its depiction of naval and air combat. The land war is serviceable in AE but WiS takes it to the next level.

[RangerJoe]

Yes, I do.

[altipueri]

No, I don't.


====
And yes, I do have WITP:AE

[vinnland]

Are you more interested in land warfare or naval campaigns? WITP/AE is not anywhere near as well developed in the land war as is WiS, but it excels with its depiction of naval and air combat. The land war is serviceable in AE but WiS takes it to the next level.

I think WiS has shown me that naval stuff can be fun. Previously I was 100% land, but now I am open.

[vinnland]

No, I don't.


====
And yes, I do have WITP:AE

Can you say why?

[altipueri]

It is too big.

There are about 4000 pieces you need to decide what to do with on the first turn - it will take you a week.
Someone has even prepared a spreadsheet to help you with the first day.

There are some people to whom these huge games are an attraction - I suggest reading the forum for WITP-AE to decide if it is for you.

So it gathers dust with my other games that are too big, at least for me.

[atheory]

I am one such person who is "attracted" to large scale games. WITP is the goat and the air/naval aspects will give you a different feel than the land centric war of WIS.

Go big or go home is my wargaming motto. Small scenarios bore me.

If you're not in a hurry it often goes on sale once or twice a year during one of Matrix grand sales events.

And if you like PBEM, so many additional possibilities open up to you as far as what your opponent chooses to do. Just know these games can take a long time.

I'm a japanese fan boy because you get to mess with some aspects of production (aircraft, engines, ship priority etc.). And keeping resources flowing to the home islands is like a mini-game in and of itself.

[rmeckman]

Hi all,

War in spain is one of my fav games right now. I like this engine and the level of play more than WiTE2.

For people who have played WiS and WiTP:AE, how does this game compare? would you recommend that I should play that game too?

One critical attribute of both WiS and WitP AE that differs from most other games is the time-scale of each turn. In my experience with both games, it can be difficult to sustain completing one game turn per day of real-life time. With the default of one turn representing one day of combat, that means a month of steady playing will get you to mid August 1936 (WiS) or early January 1942 (WitP AE). In many other games, 30 turns will take you much further through a scenario/campaign or complete it.

Some players like this more gradual evolution of the simulated wars, but there are others that may be put off by the required time investment.

[rmeckman]

One other thing about WitP AE is that the computer opponent is pretty inflexible. It is based on fixed scripts mainly developed for Japan's offensive early in the war. Once the war goes "off-script", the computer opponent has a limited ability to make any adjustments. If you play Allies vs Japan computer opponent, it is often recommended that you let Japan win the early battles so it can complete the initial offensive phase as planned in the scripts. If you fight back too much and Japan can't take key areas on time (e.g., Dutch East Indies), the computer opponent quickly runs out of ideas and starts making dumb mistakes.

Playing against a human opponent is a whole different ballgame.

[RangerJoe]

There are different scripts so a player can remove all but one script to play a game. When that game is finished, just move another script over and start a new game from scratch with the new script.

The Allies don't take that long early except for moving things out of harms way during the first turn, some other things can wait. For the Japanese, it may take longer but a player doesn't have to start everything that they want to do the very first day. Some modified scenarios do make things easier/quicker for Japan.

[vinnland]

So it gathers dust with my other games that are too big, at least for me.

I'm curious what else is in your list of other games that are "too big"?

[vinnland]

I'm a japanese fan boy because you get to mess with some aspects of production (aircraft, engines, ship priority etc.). And keeping resources flowing to the home islands is like a mini-game in and of itself.

So, does that mean the allied side has a different gaming experience? That is, no/low production and resource logistics?

[bradfordkay]

I'm a japanese fan boy because you get to mess with some aspects of production (aircraft, engines, ship priority etc.). And keeping resources flowing to the home islands is like a mini-game in and of itself.

So, does that mean the allied side has a different gaming experience? That is, no/low production and resource logistics?

For the allies, the logistics side is tied up in getting supplies and fuel to the front lines. All allied unit production is fixed (with a little random variance) so there is little need to ship resources or oil anywhere. However, in the early months getting troops, air units, supplies and fuel to the locations you need them to be will take some concentrated finagling. By the time 1944 rolls around it is no longer a problem of scarcity but now a problem of excess.

[altipueri]

@vinnland
Other games I think too big:

WITE2 - the manual is a good doorstop though at 500 pages

Wars of Napoleon (Ageod) the earlier Napoleon's Campaigns is "better" because the Napoleonic Wars were largely a series of discrete campaigns.

Pride of Nations - another Ageod game

I have all the above and fire them up occasionally - I like looking at maps. In fact the book I most recommend to wargamers who like history is the Times Atlas of World History - 600 maps for a few dollars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Times ... ld_History

[Thogode]

@vinnland
Other games I think too big:

WITE2 - the manual is a good doorstop though at 500 pages

Wars of Napoleon (Ageod) the earlier Napoleon's Campaigns is "better" because the Napoleonic Wars were largely a series of discrete campaigns.

Pride of Nations - another Ageod game

Sorry that I couldn't concur with your opinion.

Regarding the two AGEoD titles the engines were simply not capable of handling "the greater pictures" and pursue something called a strategy. And the titles were neglectfully maintained. Wars of Napoleon got only one patch after six months. Both titles were abandoned quite soon (to me this was a typical feature of AGEoD games at that time).

Compared to this WitE2 is a labour of love (look at the number of patches) and a little bit similar to WitP:AE: If you are not able to beat the logistics, the logistics will beat you. Both WitE2 and WitP:AE are merely not suited for solo play on the long run.

To me titles like WiS, WitE2 or WitP:AE must not be rolling down the historic railway, but the real historical results have to be made possible by the game engine. And reading all the posts here of taking Mallorca, Spanish Africa and Burgos even playing PvP, to me WiS is lacking this. The historical result should not the very uncommon exception. And the torpedo planes of WiS were not flown by veterans of the Kido Butai. So I am happy following the discussions here and waiting for a real patch.

[altipueri]

Pride of Nations - about 1600 turns even if you spend only half an hour a turn that is a huge commitment - heck it takes about 5 minutes just to process the turn.

Wars of Napoleon - again about a thousand turns - and slow processing of turns.

Have you actually played them beginning to end? Kudos if you have.

[Thogode]

Have you actually played them beginning to end? Kudos if you have.

No, none of them.
As you described PoN is slower than a snail and likes to CTD. That game was technically way to nasty. No optimization, no maintenance.

And of that use are a thousand game turns if the "AI" (shouldn't be called like this) gets derailed after a few turns?

And with the other ones: Sooner or later you realize you need a human opponent. I am not retired yet, so time is lacking for this, and additionally I guess the most players around here would give me Stalingrad all the time.

[altipueri]

Have you tried Rise of Prussia or Thirty Years War - both by Ageod.

Both seem to be geographically on your patch.

[Thogode]

Have you tried Rise of Prussia or Thirty Years War - both by Ageod.

Both seem to be geographically on your patch.

Got both, but none is installed today, and I only faintly remember these games.

But I politely propose, we should end this little off-topic discussion. The thread is about WIS and WitTP:AE, not old AGEoD games.
Also, I guess most readers here are not interested in reminiscences of games mostly long forgotten.