Strategic Questions: Mallorca

[Q-Ball]

Thinking ahead to when game is ready play human v human, I was thinking about one of the first decisions you have to make as the Republic: Are you invading Mallorca? And if so, when and how?

The first part of that question whether you should invade Mallorca. I think the answer is YES, but it's not 100% clear cut, IMO. What do others think?

Mallorca's Strategic Value: What is the import of Mallorca? It's primary impact IMO is on communications in the Mediterranean. It's a platform that can be used to attack shipping coming from Italy/Odessa, and thereby interdict fuel and supply shipments. The most important asset on the island is the Level-4 airbase outside Palma, as well as the port itself.

For the Republic, I think you want that cleared to keep supply and fuel flowing from Odessa; without Nationlists on Mallorca, it should be pretty easy to keep it flowing to Barcelona, outside submarines. It also will be a pain for the Nationalists, especially getting the CTV from Naples to Spain, if the Republic has bombers there.

Basically, control of Mallorca gives you the upper hand on shipping lanes

So, I think it's a worthwhile target

When?: This is why I think the Republican player needs to be thinking of this from Day 1; if you're going to do it, you should do it right away.

The Nationalists have no navy or airforce to speak of at-start. The first real warships, CA Trento and CL Cervera, can get to the area around August 4. This gives you 2 weeks to land cleanly. I think the Republic should target a landing for August 1 for that reason. Setting sail on July 29 or 30 gives you a couple weeks to pull together ships and some units. The ships are not a problem....and there should be a fair number of militia available at Barcelona, Valencia, Cartagena, and other ports by then. Quality is another matter.....

Forces: A landing that early means you're going to be doing it with whatever militia and few guns you can grab and get there. This does represent a COST: August is a critical time where there aren't alot of units on the map, and pulling units away from the Mediterranean ports for a month to invade Mallorca carries some risk. This is the main thing that should give Republicans pause; if I am the Nationalist player, and I see an invasion of Mallorca, I will know that there probably aren't many forces in Aragon or elsewhere. This would allow me to either a) push in that direction, or b) launch a push toward Bilbao knowing I don't have to worry about my rear. This, to me, is the primary COST that the Republic will pay for invading Mallorca

[Q-Ball]

The Battle: I didn't mention Ibiza, btw, because I think landing there is a no-brainer no matter what you do; the garrison is very small, only a couple battalions should be enough to clear it. I don't think the Nationalists will bother to stop you.

For Mallorca, a landing on the northern coast is pretty standard, staying away from the CD guns on the south coast. The Nationalist are almost certainly going to pull back to Palma, where many of the units are static and it's the only defensible point. That does mean taking the airfield is pretty easy IMO, even if you get stuck in a siege of Palma.

Speaking of the airbase, it's a good idea to bring an airbase unit or two to activate that base. Planes based there can help keep the Nationalist Navy away.

The Republic still has naval superiority during August/September, but you still don't want to be tied down on Mallorca 100%, because you are probably trying to interdict traffic from Morocco to Spain at the same time. For this reason, you really want to be ashore mostly early-August.

It seems like it will take a fair amount of troops to take it, given the poor quality of what you're working with.

What can the Nationalists Do About it?: I haven't quite teased this one out....certainly, Nationalist Cruisers will look to interdict any ships, so at a minimum you can force the Republic to tie-down some warships on escort. Bombarding troops is also not a bad idea. I don't think you can really do much with airpower before the airbase falls.

Getting reinforcements to the island is very tricky. A Tabor or two from Morocco would do wonders, but an alert Republican player will be looking for that. You could fly a unit in for sure, that's a possibility.

If the airbase falls, getting supplies there is going to be very risky. For this reason you may need to write it off if the Republic commits to this. That does complicate getting ships from Naples to Morocco/Spain, I haven't worked out yet the best way to make that happen.

Probably the main thing the Nationalists can do is take advantage of the lack of Republican forces on the mainland for August/September

Thoughts on any of this appreciated, I wonder if I'm on the right stack of mail here

[colt12myers]

I’ve played both sides for about 55 turns so far and the situation to me it seems both sides can take and hold the Balearic Islands to their advantage of controlling sea trade in the Mediterranean later when both sides get a real Air Force. However, it comes down to how many resources does either side want to commit to taking/holding them. Republicans can form up an invasion task force/force rather quickly and I did this in my campaign but I am still battering at Palma with about 7000 troops because I have committed most of my troops to attacking on the mainland in the north to connect up the two conclaves. While with the nationalists I really just started assembling a force to try and take Menorca it’s a little harder as you have to wait for some Naval units to show up and foreign air units to support the invasion and shift forces around.

So win/lose

Republicans - gain a base to interdict nationalist sea lanes in the med and secure their own to odessa/while they may lose more territory on the mainland because they have way less land power than the nationalists at the start of the game.

Nationalists - the opposite really they don’t really lose much in not holding the Balearics other than I good base to interdict republican supplies.

[Q-Ball]

Good points

I think against a human, a Nationalist presence on Mallorca will always be a little tenuous.....because the Republican Navy can get there so easily from the mainland, and the whole place can be bombed as well. I probably wouldn't attempt a Menorca invasion as the Nationalists against a human, but against an AI....sure, go for it

I think this will be a major focus area. As you said, 7000 guys probably not enough to quickly take Palma, though it is enough to take out the airfield and all the CD guns outside Palma, so that's not nothing

[RangerJoe]

Check my AAR, I did invade Mallorca early and I used some regular infantry units along with militia and artillery. I did manage to cut off some Nationalist units but I would have won eventually. If people want me to do so, I can go back and update my AAR for every turn that I played during that time. In fact, I am on 22 November 1936 and I am thinking about invading Afrika before I capture Burgos.

The Nationalist navy without fighter protection is asking for torpedoes from torpedo bombers plus bombs from other bombers. Not to mention submarines and the nationalists don't have too many ASW vessels early in the game.

[Q-Ball]

Check my AAR, I did invade Mallorca early and I used some regular infantry units along with militia and artillery. I did manage to cut off some Nationalist units but I would have won eventually. If people want me to do so, I can go back and update my AAR for every turn that I played during that time. In fact, I am on 22 November 1936 and I am thinking about invading Afrika before I capture Burgos.

The Nationalist navy without fighter protection is asking for torpedoes from torpedo bombers plus bombs from other bombers. Not to mention submarines and the nationalists don't have too many ASW vessels early in the game.

Could be helpful, though I think a human defender will certainly circle the wagons in Palma.

And you're right about aircover.....there's no way for the Nationalists to defend the airfield, so they will have zero aircover even if they do get some planes. Republican bombers can easily reach the area from the mainland.

The more I think about, the more I think the Nationalists can't really defend it (just hold out for awhile with the forces there)

[melvi]

Don´t forget the coal mines in Pollensa. There is a saying in spanish "from take my donkey to give me your donkey there is a 2 donkeys difference". You earn whatever coal production gives you after conquering it and deprive nacionales from that coal. And it is not an small amount at all.

PollensaCoal.jpg (428.97 KiB) Viewed 453 times

Regards:
Melvi

[Q-Ball]

Don´t forget the coal mines in Pollensa. There is a saying in spanish "from take my donkey to give me your donkey there is a 2 donkeys difference". You earn whatever coal production gives you after conquering it and deprive nacionales from that coal. And it is not an small amount at all.

PollensaCoal.jpg

Regards:
Melvi

This is something I am unfamiliar with....is there a benefit to having lots and lots of coal? Like Foreign Exchange?

In-game, the only use I see for coal is fueling coal-fired ships, period. And there's plenty in Spain to do that for both sides, with our without the Pollensa mines.

Am I missing something?

[RangerJoe]

Don´t forget the coal mines in Pollensa. There is a saying in spanish "from take my donkey to give me your donkey there is a 2 donkeys difference". You earn whatever coal production gives you after conquering it and deprive nacionales from that coal. And it is not an small amount at all.

PollensaCoal.jpg

Regards:
Melvi

This is something I am unfamiliar with....is there a benefit to having lots and lots of coal? Like Foreign Exchange?

In-game, the only use I see for coal is fueling coal-fired ships, period. And there's plenty in Spain to do that for both sides, with our without the Pollensa mines.

Am I missing something?

RR logistical units usually use coal and some fuel for their operations. Plus if other industries start being added, they will need some source of energy . . .

Right now, I am building a railroad connection to the main rail line on Mallorca but I don't yet see how to build a train depot so the RR logistical units can haul coal directly to the larger port. As a Republican in this game that I am currently playing, I have liberated the Baleric Islands early.

[Dali101]

I agree that it is advisable to conquer Mallorca almost immediately. Don't wait for anything and do it within about 5 weeks at the beginning of the war.

I am not building any railways or train depots because it is unnecessary.

[melvi]

This is something I am unfamiliar with....is there a benefit to having lots and lots of coal? Like Foreign Exchange?

No clue.

In-game, the only use I see for coal is fueling coal-fired ships, period.

For sure that and trains. If you want the truth, I have no clue if it is used for making roads/RR/fortifications/airfields, that I am doing here and there. I guess it will be more extensively used in more complex economy models.

And there's plenty in Spain to do that for both sides, with our without the Pollensa mines.
Am I missing something?

Incorrect. Let me show you this:
Republicans without Pollensa:

PollensaCoal01.jpg (518.38 KiB) Viewed 388 times

According to data shown here Republican Spain ( without North Spain and Russia) has a deficit of 3593 coal daily and it is going to run out of coal in 234 days. Wherever the coal is spent.
Data is very different if you study “your side” fully, you have an excess of coal ever you worry about bringing the coal from URSS ports and/or from North Spain ports to Republican Spain.
North Spain have an excess of coal too, bigger than the deficit of Republican Spain ( if daily expenses don’t go up with the number of units ur something). If you dare to ship it to Republican Spain across the Straits. Or if you ever link both parts in the Zaragoza-Pamplona railroad axis. Doable against AI very likely… not sure against another human player. And you need to open the Zaragoza-Pamplona railroad axis WITHOUT loosing the coal mines in the north of course.
Note too that 2 biggest coal centers in Republican Spain are in hex 148,68 in the Pyrenees mountains to the north and in hex 109,32 by the south coast next to Almeria both hexes without a single dirty path ( as both are classified as “light urban” I think they have secondary roads connection with adjacent hexes). I mean that that coal isn’t going to be easy to move.


Now let´s see if republicans own Pollensa and her coal mines:

PollensaCoal02.jpg (533.34 KiB) Viewed 388 times

All in a sudden your coal mines in the region went from 131 to 631 and although the coal delta in the “region” is still negative, it doesn’t count the coal in Pollensa because it is in another “region”, if you add the coal in the “region” with the one “overseas” you have a daily excess coal 6 thousands something. Of course, you still need to ship the coal from Pollensa to mainland, but that’s faster and safer that bring it from URSS or North Spain, above all if you control the Islands.


Again not been sure what is the coal used for… dunno if it is a big deal. In more complex economies I would say it becomes a main strategic objective. Again above all if you play against another human player. Republicans must take ( and hold) Mallorca islands and Nacionales must defent ( or retake) Mallorca islands at all cost!.
Regards:
Melvi

[RangerJoe]

It is actually easier to go down to Leon after capturing Oviedo, then down to the central part of Spain while connecting with the Madrid area. The area is more open with fewer enemy units. The bonus is that Burgos is cut off from the Ferrol and Vigo areas.

The problem with destroying units is that Burgos gets them when they are rebuilt so if Burgos is cut off from outside supplies, then it should run short of supplies. But if you destroy units, usually you can capture some artillery and logistical vehicles along with some other useful devices.

[Q-Ball]

I'm still not 100% convinced on that statistic on coal burn.....I wonder if that depletion projection thinks you're sailing every coal burning ship all the time. I played the Republic vs. AI for over a year, didn't ship any coal at all, and never came close to running out.....it was piling up everywhere. But maybe that's because I captured alot of coal?

Either way, it will be interesting to see if coal becomes short at all in the Republican zone

I think the Nationalists have pretty good coal mines in their part of Spain (there's a large one near Burgos) so I don't think they have a worry in the Coal department

Still, the point is I think the Republic needs to invade Mallorca

[Q-Ball]

Update: I've recently modeled this in the GC setup (which is different than the Scenario!), and I do think there are some opportunities and additional challenges for the Republic.

In the GC, you have to be aware of Nationalist pressure in Aragon and elsewhere, so you can't just pick up everyone and drop them on Mallorca. With the latest BETA, the troops quality is also lower than earlier tests, since the Militia units are all EXP in the 20s, and it's really a rabble! There is also a lack of decent artillery of course.

Overall, I think it's very likely the Republic will get stuck on Palma.

With a D-Day date of August 1 (to avoid Nationalist Naval Interference), it's easy to pull together a bit over 10K men from the various ports, including troops on Menorca.

I did an immediate invasion of Ibiza on July 22, using troops from Alicante, with the intention of clearing that island then re-using those guys on Mallorca. I think that's pretty necessary step.

With the reduced experience, it is VERY hard to quickly clear Palma; I don't think the Republic can afford to put enough guys on Mallorca (probably 20K) to clear it quickly. Which means a siege. Is this a good thing?

A landing on August 1, you can at least clear the island pretty easily; this includes all the CD guns outside Palma, and importantly, the Airport. You have to reduce the Nationalists to Palma only. It's important to take every village to eliminate all supply sources for the Nationalists.

The Nationalists have enough supplies, it appears, to hold out until early September, at which point they will be at ZERO. This is why you need the airport; in a siege, the Nationalists are going to want to try to get supplies into Palma...they have to if they want to keep the place at all.

That is no easy feat, because there will be no aircover for them. Vildebeests at the airport can torpedo any supply ships coming in, and put the other ships at-risk. It would require commitment of cruisers, pretty far away from the nearest Nationalist base, and away from the Straits which are probably priority for the Nats at this stage (to get the Army of Africa over).

Overall, I think the Republic has to prepare for a long siege; this means making sure you move Air Support Unit to Mallorca with the invasion, and plenty of supplies. The Nationalists will be blind, since the nearest base that can support search planes is Melilla (this assumes you keep supplies supressed at Palma so that can't be used)

Anyay, I think this is an interesting strategic situtation, and will be in a PBEM

[RangerJoe]

Don't forget to bring artillery over so you can bombard when you are conducting the siege. This will require more supplies but once you capture the airfield on Mallorca then your ships from Odesa should be safe until enemy submarines show up. The bombardments should also cause the Nationalists to consume more supplies.

That said, for the Nationalists the first supply convoys from Napoli should go to Palma. An Italian CA should help to protect the shipping.

[Q-Ball]

Bump; just wonder how relevant this still is.