Japanese AI Conversions & Upgrade Chains — Has Anyone Optimized These for AI‑vs‑Human Play?

[Dereck]

I’m doing a ground‑up rebuild of my old scenario and I’ve reached the point where I need to take a hard look at the Japanese ship conversions and upgrade chains. As most of us know, the Japanese AI never uses optional conversions — it only follows upgrade paths. That means a lot of historically important IJN conversions (PBs, APDs, AKVs, DMS, etc.) never happen unless they’re modeled as upgrades instead of optional conversions.

Before I start restructuring these chains, I wanted to ask the community:

Has anyone already worked on optimizing Japanese conversions specifically for AI‑vs‑Human scenarios?

I’m not looking for files — just your experience, notes, or general approach. In particular:
- Have you forced certain conversions into the upgrade chain so the AI actually uses them?
- Did you pre‑convert any ships in the OOB to give the AI a more realistic force mix?
- Did you restructure the upgrade trees to simulate conversions the AI would never choose on its own?
- Are there any “best practices” you’ve found for improving Japanese AI behavior through conversions?
- Did you identify any conversions that shouldn’t be forced because they weaken the AI?

My goal is to give the Japanese AI a more historically accurate and functional fleet without giving it anything ahistorical or unbalanced. If anyone has already explored this problem — even partially — I’d appreciate hearing what you tried and what worked (or didn’t).

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to share their thoughts or experience.

[jmolyson]

I have over the years made some upgrades to the databases, especially in terms of task force assignments at the beginning of scenarios. I don't have any notes as such to give you, I work out of standard OBs such as Osprey campaign series.

"Ahistoric" and "balanced" are opposite goals. It was impossible for the game designers to achieve total play balance and stay 100% historical, and neither can you.

Balanced scenarios are achieved by changing history in some way to allow the two players an equal chance of winning. This is never the case in history; no two opposing human beings are play-balanced.

For example, antisubmarine ordnance is modeled for the sub on the surface. You can't drop an Mk.17 ASW bomb with accurate weapons effects, for example. It's just not modelled in the game, or so I was told years ago when I asked why.

All this just my opinion, of course,
and I will admit it's a great game and fun to try!

Joe Molyson

[LargeSlowTarget]

Dereck, I have never worked on an human vs AI scenario, but thinking about it, maybe you could "force" into upgrades the conversions that actually did happen IRL - Chitose and Chiyoda, Ise and Hyuga, Mogami. Maybe the planned but never carried-out conversion of the Tenryus as well. I don't know whether the conversions of DDs into APDs or E types that are in the game are historic. In any case a DD can be used for FT missions and of course as ASW platforms, albeit not optimised for one or another, so maybe it is not necessary.

[Dereck]

Dereck, I have never worked on an human vs AI scenario, but thinking about it, maybe you could "force" into upgrades the conversions that actually did happen IRL - Chitose and Chiyoda, Ise and Hyuga, Mogami. Maybe the planned but never carried-out conversion of the Tenryus as well. I don't know whether the conversions of DDs into APDs or E types that are in the game are historic. In any case a DD can be used for FT missions and of course as ASW platforms, albeit not optimised for one or another, so maybe it is not necessary.

This is where I'm in the non-historic camp. WitP is a game BASED on history. After the first turn it stops being historic but a game based on history - anything can happen. So, if I can change conversions into upgrades to help the AI I'm not against it. I put another question in the main thread asking Japanese players what they convert and I will weigh all that into what I decide to do.

For what it's worth, once I realized they put in LCDR Quinton McHale I knew it wasn't stuck on being 100% historic. I'm also intending to rename all ships ending with "II" because I'm not going accept the fact that the originals got sunk. I've already decided on 4 names for merchant ships: xAK Jedidiah Clampett, SS Ellie Mae Clampett, SS Jethro Bodine and SS Daisy Mae Moses.

[Gets off soapbox] In any case I don't have a source to use for the Japanese like I do for the USN (Morrison) and, for personal reasons, I will never play the Japanese side so I need to ask for information from people much more knowledgeable in these matters than I am.