Icarus Mod, Versions 6 and 7 in Preliminary Release

[mdsmall]

Soo now again any ship can perform blockade, yes? I am quite sure in some versions it was only subs/destroyers/light cruisers, but does not seem to be the case anymore. Just wanted to confirm.

Yes, that's right. At one point I tested the idea of restricting it to only non-capital ships, but I have gone back to the vanilla settings and any naval unit can blockade Germany by occupying one of those hexes.

[mdsmall]

Hi - I have now posted updated versions of both 1914 and 1916 campaigns for Icarus Version 7.0 to my dropbox link, at the beginning of this thread. Updates mostly consist of resolving small issues with the sequencing of certain pop-ups relative to events in the game. For the 1916 campaign, there have been some corrections to the starting MPP amounts on the first turn and the allocation of tech chits between powers on both sides. Latest versions of the file and the guide to the mod are dated March 10, 2026.

[mdsmall]

I have made a few more small corrections to the 1916 campaign only. Latest files for in my Dropbox for this campaign are dated March 12, 2206.

[Beriand]

I have made a few more small corrections to the 1916 campaign only. Latest files for in my Dropbox for this campaign are dated March 12, 2206.

[sorry]

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I have made a few more small corrections to the 1916 campaign only. Latest files for in my Dropbox for this campaign are dated March 12, 2206.

[sorry]

[shri]

Michael,
A help and request.

Like an idiot i retreated the serbian corps on turn 1 fearing major loss (taking belgrade failed badly), result is my HQ is now spawned right adjacent to Belgrade, please change this in the next iteration. Even Conrad wouldn't have sent von Bohm-Ermoli to charge with a horse on belgrade without support.

[mdsmall]

Michael,
A help and request.

Like an idiot i retreated the serbian corps on turn 1 fearing major loss (taking belgrade failed badly), result is my HQ is now spawned right adjacent to Belgrade, please change this in the next iteration. Even Conrad wouldn't have sent von Bohm-Ermoli to charge with a horse on belgrade without support.

Hi shri - I take it you are playing the Central Powers and it you are referring to what happened at the end of your first move on August 1, 1914, after opting to second the AH Second Army to Serbia.

The Bohm-Ermoli HQ spawns on Novi Sad (185,93) in the both regular game and in Icarus. If it spawned adjacent to Belgrade, I infer that was because at the end of the move you had a unit on Novi Sad and another unit on the hex north-east of Novi Sad (186,93), so the game engine chose the next empty hex clockwise from the top right (186,94) which put your general next to Belgrade. Is that what happened?

The only systemic fix for this would be to have the HQ spawn on another AH resource such as Esseg which is two hexes further back from the front line. The downside is that would reduce its ability to provide maximum supply to AH units on the front line, or which have pushed into the hills south of Belgrade. I will take a look at that but it may cause more problems than it solves.

Cheers,

Michael

[Cheshirec]

Can someone tell me what's the problem?

[mdsmall]

Can someone tell me what's the problem?

Hi - it looks like this error message is popping up during the Deployment Phase on the first CP turn of the game. Try downloading the mod files again from my dropbox link (see the first post in this long thread) and re-installing the mod. That might solve the problem. Good luck.

Michael

[mdsmall]

Icarus Version 7.0 has been out for almost two months and I am working on an update. Before releasing Version 7.1, I thought I would post the main changes I am considering to get feedback from players who have already tried out Version 7.0, as well as from anyone else who is interested in the mod.

The main feedback I have received is that the Central Powers can build up an unstoppable lead in experience and tech capacity in the first year of the war which is impossible for the Entente to counter, even after Italy has joined the Entente. I believe this problem applies to the regular game too, at least between relatively experienced players. Game balance is a tricky matter and in a game as finely calibrated as SC WW1, it is easy to over-correct for one factor and tip the scales too far in the other direction. With that in mind, these are the adjustments I am considering:

- Move up the arrival date of France's half-strength artillery unit from February 1915 to September 1914. This would give France a capacity comparable to Germany to de-entrench, thus making it more feasible for France to counter-attack in the second month of the war (as happened in the Battle of the Marne).

- Give Italy a half-strength field artillery unit which mobilizes along with the rest of its army when it enters the war.

- Move up the Italian war-bond (which gives Italy 125 MPPs) from December to October 1914, thus reducing the amount of time they will lag behind Austria-Hungary in Trench Warfare or Infantry Weapons (depending on how the Entente player chooses to spend this money).

- Give Italy a few more incentives to say YES if Austria-Hungary proposes that they annex Albania instead of going to war in the spring of 1915. These would include: allowing Italy to build an Albanian detachment in mid-June 1915; waiving the 75 MPP cost of mobilization when Italy does enter the war, and including a stop-gap measure to ensure that Italy will enter the war by November 1915. NB: these provisions would not apply if Austria-Hungary does not offer this option to Italy, or if Italy declines it.

- Strengthen the Serbian detachment that starts on Belgrade from 6 to 8 points to make it very difficult to destroy on the first turn, thus starting a "Serbian blitz" (see hannaj's thread on this in this forum).

- Cap the maximum level of experience which all HQs can earn to 2.0 points, rather than 3.0 points.

The last measure would have the biggest effect on Germany, since they are usually the only power that is able to reach experience level 3.0 with their HQs. But this provision would apply to all powers. HQs with level 2.0 of experience are still very effective; but it would make it harder for Germany to kill full strength enemy corps while losing only 1-2 strength points.

Grateful for readers' views on the above, and any other adjustments you would like to see in the mod.

Cheers

Michael

[Beriand]

We calculated chance of taking Belgrade in first turn is ~38%, which is irritating value - definitely possible, but not guaranteed. 8str unit should help to just rule this out. Anyway, with massed CP units Serbia is guaranteed to fall up to ~May 1915, I suppose, anyway. Which maybe is okay, given necessary CP investment, just saying it's not a question of Belgrade, but more like number of CP units.

HQ xp sounds good. The rest is very minor (well maybe Italian arty is bigger), so probably could be risked. It is not super clear if CP has definitive advantage, but might be the case. Should not be result in a dramatic change or anything.

[hannaj]

Dear Michael,

Thanks for your measures and initiative to balance the game. Earlier French artillery, Belgrade and Italian artillery plus earlier entrenchment will definitely make the game in the west way more balanced. These are very good ideas.

Still fear with Russian entrenchment research level capped at 3, Germany will just kill Russians corps pretty much at will -- even without artillery and with lvl 2 HQ.

As you plan, I guess the game will be way more balanced with some back and forth in the west, while Germany advances in Russia. Difficult to tell whether the plus in the west is enough for the Entente to have a fair chance that their better long-term perspective kicks in.

Giving Russia entrechment 4 (and to compensate for it Ottomans, too) and maybe taking out the free Italian artillery would be an alternative. In my view a bit safer to have a balanced game. This then requires some more artillery in the East if Germans focus on Russia.


Best,

hannaj

[teletabicus]

My observations are not strictly related to 7.0:
1) AH desertions on the Italian front. I would shift the focus to the effects on unit morale rather than desertions. Historically, the only front where the AH Army didn't experience significant desertion problems was the Italian one, for a number of reasons that are too long to explore in this section.
2) Senussi and Ott. Corps. It's true that the Senussi posed a problem for British Egypt as well as Italian Libya, but at the moment in Icarus they are too strong, ready to rush towards the Delta with disastrous effects for the UK. The presence of an infantry corps, even if the CP player specifically chose it, proves a bit too convenient in terms of strength and operational capacity. I would recommend reducing it to an infantry division, a unit that would be unique in the Ottoman OOB and that only comes thanks to a DE.
3) Stosstruppen. In my experience, I find them less efficient than a standard infantry corps with experience 2 and level 2 warfare.
4) Torpedo boats. They become the main investment for some navies if they decide to invest in this area. With little historical basis.
Thank you Michael for your great effort to make the already beautiful Icarus mod even better.

[mdsmall]

My observations are not strictly related to 7.0:
1) AH desertions on the Italian front. I would shift the focus to the effects on unit morale rather than desertions. Historically, the only front where the AH Army didn't experience significant desertion problems was the Italian one, for a number of reasons that are too long to explore in this section.
2) Senussi and Ott. Corps. It's true that the Senussi posed a problem for British Egypt as well as Italian Libya, but at the moment in Icarus they are too strong, ready to rush towards the Delta with disastrous effects for the UK. The presence of an infantry corps, even if the CP player specifically chose it, proves a bit too convenient in terms of strength and operational capacity. I would recommend reducing it to an infantry division, a unit that would be unique in the Ottoman OOB and that only comes thanks to a DE.
3) Stosstruppen. In my experience, I find them less efficient than a standard infantry corps with experience 2 and level 2 warfare.
4) Torpedo boats. They become the main investment for some navies if they decide to invest in this area. With little historical basis.
Thank you Michael for your great effort to make the already beautiful Icarus mod even better.

Hi teletabicus - I am glad you like the mod. Many thanks for these very helpful suggestions. Items 1 and 2 are easily fixed. (Though in my recent games, I have found the Senussi were easily blocked by Entente, provided Italy, France and/o the UK send about four detachments and a cavalry corps to do the job ).

On item 3, when you say level 2 warfare, do you mean level 2 in infantry weapons, or level 2 in infantry warfare? Either way, the stosstruppen and corps should benefit equally, so I am a bit puzzled by this observation. You are right, they usually can't match German corps that start the game at 0.8 or 1.0 experience points, since they start as new units at 0.0 experience. In earlier versions of the mod, I gave stosstruppen increased capacity to gain experience through combat. I might come back to that idea.

In item 4, which navies are you thinking of? I gave every power (except Serbia) the ability to build a maximum of two torpedo boats. If I were to dial that back, what would be a fairer representation historically?

Cheers,

Michael

[Taaff]

I like all of your suggested changes.

Changing HQs to 2.0 max will be interesting.

I agree with teletabicus on Austrians. They did not desert on the Italian front. i would not even consider lowering unit morale on the Italian front, if you are giving the Italians an early artillery.
In my latest game, the Senussi have almost opened an entire western front in the desert. I might take a spawning point or two away from them. Maybe i am just playing them incorrectly, but i do think they are somewhat overpowered.
I also note that it is still very easy to prevent any revolts in Morocco. Maybe add an additional spawning point for them?

I would also limit torpedo boats to one for each nation, and/or make them weaker. Britain with max anti-submarine tech and 2 torpedo boats is too much, I think.
I would eliminate any torpedo boats for the Russians and Ottomans.
Make submarine attacks on ships in port ineffective, if possible. House rule takes care of it, but it should not be possible for a submarine to just continuously attack a port and sink capital ships with absolutely no danger to itself. I am guessing that this is not possible to do, but I mention it in case.

THANK YOU for this mod. It adds so much to the historical immersion for the game.
Cheers,
Tom

[teletabicus]

On point three, I'm referring to infantry weapons. What I was trying to say is that the investment in Stosstruppen is not worth it in terms of time and resources compared to the (similar or even better) result you can achieve with a veteran line corps. I'm of the opinion that Stoss units should start with a very good level of experience since they are made up of the elite of the line corps.
On point four, I remember playing a game with three Ottoman T-boats, but maybe I'm wrong.
As for the subs attacks on ports that Taaf talks about, I've played several games with him applying it as a house rule (along with limitations on minors in ME and Mesopotamia) and I have to say that it seems realistic.
For me, vanilla doesn't exist anymore, I tend to only play Icarus
Regards

[OldCrowBalthazor]

My observations are not strictly related to 7.0:
1) AH desertions on the Italian front. I would shift the focus to the effects on unit morale rather than desertions. Historically, the only front where the AH Army didn't experience significant desertion problems was the Italian one, for a number of reasons that are too long to explore in this section.
2) Senussi and Ott. Corps. It's true that the Senussi posed a problem for British Egypt as well as Italian Libya, but at the moment in Icarus they are too strong, ready to rush towards the Delta with disastrous effects for the UK. The presence of an infantry corps, even if the CP player specifically chose it, proves a bit too convenient in terms of strength and operational capacity. I would recommend reducing it to an infantry division, a unit that would be unique in the Ottoman OOB and that only comes thanks to a DE.
3) Stosstruppen. In my experience, I find them less efficient than a standard infantry corps with experience 2 and level 2 warfare.
4) Torpedo boats. They become the main investment for some navies if they decide to invest in this area. With little historical basis.
Thank you Michael for your great effort to make the already beautiful Icarus mod even better.

Regarding the Senussi. If the Entente handles them right, the Senussi can be contained.
In the current series I have on YT against mdmall with his 1914 Icarus Grand Campaign, I easily contain the Senussi early by covering a lot of their P spawn hexes in eastern Cyrenaica. In a upcoming YT series with him playing his Icarus 1916 scenario, the Senussi are more problematic, and there is a lot of skirmishing and containment strategies trying to quell their insurrection. The reality is that the Italians had an extremely difficult time in Libya dealing with the Senussi till 1932. The vanilla game does not address this very well at all. Also I studied the whole issue in Libya deeply, and urged mdsmall to make the Senussi more difficult. I hope he keeps it as it is quite frankly....

[OldCrowBalthazor]

I like all of your suggested changes.

Changing HQs to 2.0 max will be interesting.

I agree with teletabicus on Austrians. They did not desert on the Italian front. i would not even consider lowering unit morale on the Italian front, if you are giving the Italians an early artillery.
In my latest game, the Senussi have almost opened an entire western front in the desert. I might take a spawning point or two away from them. Maybe i am just playing them incorrectly, but i do think they are somewhat overpowered.
I also note that it is still very easy to prevent any revolts in Morocco. Maybe add an additional spawning point for them?

I would also limit torpedo boats to one for each nation, and/or make them weaker. Britain with max anti-submarine tech and 2 torpedo boats is too much, I think.
I would eliminate any torpedo boats for the Russians and Ottomans.
Make submarine attacks on ships in port ineffective, if possible. House rule takes care of it, but it should not be possible for a submarine to just continuously attack a port and sink capital ships with absolutely no danger to itself. I am guessing that this is not possible to do, but I mention it in case.

THANK YOU for this mod. It adds so much to the historical immersion for the game.
Cheers,
Tom

I disagree with taking a spawning point or two from the Senussi. Read my above response to Teletabiscus on this thread.

Also disagree with reducing the amount of Torpedo Boats available with this mod.
Its a balance issue. The CP player if played correctly could bring Britain to its knees with U-boats, not only in the Atlantic but in the Med.
They also can cripple the Italians.
I would keep the existing TB roster as it is.

[teletabicus]

The Senussi problem in Icarus isn't related to Italy. As anItalian, I'm well aware of the issue (and I'm ashamed of how it was resolved during Fascism), and I don't dispute that they must be a real headache for Rome. What leaves me perplexed is that in recent games as a CP, I was able to use them on the Delta. I believe this was beyond their limits and operational capabilities. That's what we should address, not that they're a tough opponent to fight, primarily for the Italians and secondarily for the British. Perhaps a house rule would suffice, but that would ultimately make the problem irrelevant for the UK (who cares about losing a few cities on the border?).

[mdsmall]

This is all wonderful feedback. It's great to be able to crowd-source ideas for the next update to the mod with players who are already very familiar with it. Here are a few preliminary reactions to the above comments by Taaff, teletabicus and Old Crow.

I am happy to consider dropping the desertion scripts for Austria-Hungary on the Italian front. However, in the vanilla game there is a decision event for Italy to create a new corps from Czech deserters, who presumably deserted to the Italian army. I have kept that DE in Icarus. Did this actually happen, or is that an invention of the devs?

I will reflect on reducing the number of torpedo boats a bit. The British, Germans and maybe the French should definitely keep two. My impression is that they were cheap to build and thus within reach of secondary naval powers like the Ottomans or the Russians. I have built a torpedo boat playing the Ottomans to drive off that annoying Russian sub in the Black Sea that disrupts shipping out of Zonguldak, so I am sympathetic to letting them build one.

As Old Crow reports, the Senussi are fun to play but have not found them over-powered. We are currently playing two back to back games of Icarus (1914 and 1916 campaign). In both, Old Crow as the Entente has been able to frustrate the Senussi and block them from getting beyond the Western Desert of Egypt. So, I am inclined to leave them alone. Players can certainly use a house rule to limit how far they might travel into Egypt in the east, or into Tunisia and Algeria in the west. I have seen Senussi units as far south as Aswan in one game!

On subs torpedoing ships in port, I fully agree with the comments. I have experimented changing the settings but it is not possible to improve on the current ones - naval units already receive a +8 defensive bonus against subs when they are in port. The odds remain 0-0 and thus there is a chance every turn of getting a hit against a capital ship in port. Using a house rule to prohibit this (or maybe restrict it to one sub attack a turn) seems the way to go.

On stormtroopers, I have tried multiple formulations of how to represent them since Version 5.0 of this mod. Ideally, they would be an enhanced version of elite German corps, as teletabicus suggests. The problem is how to establish a reasonable limit on the number the Germans can build and how to ensure that they appear late in the war, but not so late as not to be useful. For example, I considered allowing Germany to achieve level 3 in infantry weapons for their corps, as a way of representing stormtroopers. However, that would allow every corps in the German army to become a "stormtrooper" and if you continue to limit tech investment in infantry weapons to only one chit (which I think is essential for the pace of the game) then Germany would only reach level 3 around the summer of 1918, which is too late. Hence my current formula of controlling the speed and number that can be built by using a dedicated tech (shock infantry). The downside of this approach is that stormtroopers start as green units with no experience. I have also considered having them arrive via Decision Event scripts for Germany, which would allow them to arrive with very high levels of experience. The down-side of that is that I have to script in advance exactly when and where they will arrive, whereas allowing them to be built as new units gives the CP player to make those choices. I think I will wait to see how they work out in my current play-test of the 1916 campaign before making any further changes to them.

I have not addressed every suggestion mentioned above in this post, but I am considering them all. Feel free to post any other suggestions!

Michael