Out to Pasture? Put Me Out There Too!

[Wild Bill]

Someone mentioned that it is nearly time to "put out to pasture" or retire SPWAW.

I would STRONGLY disagree. I've gotten some of the newer games and am so looking forward to Combat Leader....

BUT...

If you put the SP series out to pasture, put me out there too, so I can continue to play it. It is an all time classic and will ALWAYS, I repeat, ALWAYS have a place on my computer.

I love the game. I love the graphics, sounds, battles, all of it. I'll be playing it and continuing to enjoy it, even with so-called better games. It just feels right to me.

No pasture for my copy of SPWAW! [:-]

WB

[Orzel Bialy]

I agree Kunel...SPWAW out to PASTURE?!?!?....I DON'T THINK SO!!!

While there are newer games out there (like CL which will have a new engine and graphics)...SPWAW does something most games do not...it allows the player to cover all the theaters of war for a very large period of time in ONE big package.

I will always have SPWAW on my PC too...and I will always be part of a fan community that plays and supports the game.

LONG LIVE SPWAW! [8D]

[mogami]

MOO[X(]

[John David]

ORIGINAL: Wild Bill

Someone mentioned that it is nearly time to "put out to pasture" or retire SPWAW.

I would STRONGLY disagree. I've gotten some of the newer games and am so looking forward to Combat Leader....

BUT...

If you put the SP series out to pasture, put me out there too, so I can continue to play it. It is an all time classic and will ALWAYS, I repeat, ALWAYS have a place on my computer.

I love the game. I love the graphics, sounds, battles, all of it. I'll be playing it and continuing to enjoy it, even with so-called better games. It just feels right to me.

No pasture for my copy of SPWAW! [:-]

WB

I'll be waiting for you guys with a picnic basket full of "Rations" in that same pasture. You guys bring the Beer!

Long Live SPWAW! [&o][&o]

JD

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

I think it is the semantics that the original comment might have merely gotten poorly stated.

I don't expect to ever stop playing Steel Panthers.

It would be nice to see Combat Leader be sooooooooo frickin awesome that it would just seem, well dumb to continue playing Steel Panthers, but does anyone here actually think Combat Leader will enter the market and be absolutely flawless?

I can't really see that happening myself.

Plus the first release is going to be just Russia. So that means, until they get to doing add ons, we STILL won't have any alternative in the first place.
And I want to see the modern modules, and the in between periods like Korea and such as well.

Logic dictates, that those won't be here for some good while.

I personally am not going to sit here for what 3 years doing nothing naturally.

If CL was released tomorrow (wish it was), I am also faily certain it will be a while before my piggy bank gave it to me.

Soooooo in spite of it seeming like Steel Panthers should be given a well deserved rest, fact is, the ole horse is still got no shortage of life in it.

I won't mind people leaving the core game alone though. I would rather everyone was putting their clearly apparent talents into making some more MCs eh.

Think about it, CL is not here, and likely will be a while. And the follow ons is a ways out. Why not just make a few more MCs while we wait?

And yes, I can see it being more a burden for the independents, as Matrix Games has a lot of other tasks to attend to. That is not a total barrier is it?
I know I am standing here willing to put in my time on any projects being considered.
And it will be time well spent.

[robot]

Wild Bill if the lord gives me the years ill be here with you. Am putting on my Rambo outfit as i speak. Getting ready to go in and kick some butt. See you in the pasture. Come armed because i am.[:D][:D][:D]

[Panzer Capta]

Having been around this Forum for a number of years now, it never ceases to amaze me to see how many individuals have literally contributed a good portion of their very lives to make this game what it is........AND TO THE BENEFIT OF SO MANY OF US.

Based upon my observations, i would have to say that SPWAW is to the computer what Squad Leader is to the WWII boardgamers........it will never die.

SPWAW will have a permanent place on my computer.......not only because it is a great game, but because i am thankful to all of those that have contributed so much to its evolution.

DRR

[Major_Johnson]

Games come and go! I've got games I've never played, still in the wrapper from 2 years ago and more!!! There will always be a place on my pc for a copy (or 2!) of SPWAW!!

[Sergio Castaldi]

J'm totally agree My Marshal !!!!

J discovered Spwaw in 2001 from 4.5v, and from that time j have always play with Spwaw. J have build some scenarios, ter Shp ( will be put in the next version ) and j have proposed some new icon ( but Matrix Staff have decided to not accept my ship icon ). J really love this game that allow us to create battles with a realism near the true. Spwaw allow us also to study the history and to know other people. J think that this game it isn't only a game, but allow us to know the culture of other country.

Sergio

[Kevin E. Duguay]

I thought I would never stop playing ASL, but then we got a Cat. They love to swat around and chew cardboard tanks and squads or just rearrange things in general.

This fact alone forced me into the SPWaW game system and the age of computers. I still buy ASL stuff but only to enhance my enjoyment of SPWaW.

Now that I'm really starting to learn the ins and outs of SPWaW, I will continue playing it as long as it is available because I really enjoy it.

And for all of this I have my Cat to thank!![:D]

[KG Erwin]

Gents, I'll play Devil's Advocate for just a moment. The forumer who suggested that SPWaW be "put out to pasture" is a veteran gamer, and I think he said this just out of frustration over the very long gestation period of CL. The research and time taken to devote to the 8.2 SPWaW update could just as well have been applied towards CL's development. In this light, I understand his frustration, even though many of us who contributed to 8.2 are playing no role in CL. Nevertheless, we shouldn't judge his comments too harshly.

[Wild Bill]

Ah no, no harshness intended. This is only meant to be an enthusiastic support of the game and how much it means to me. Panzer Captain said it well.

I personally cannot even calculate the hundreds, even thousands of hours I've invested over the last 11 years into the Steel Panthers series.

Having seen it evolve (oops, arguable word [8|] ) I mean develop and grow into a windows compatible, fully functional game which can be played in so many ways, and after having designed hundreds and hundreds of scenarios either singly or in campaigns, I find myself still delighted to crank the old lady up one more time.

So, no, no real offense was taken. My comments and all of these replies are said with tongue in cheek in good humor. No one is mad at anybody. In fact, me and the guys replying here will some thirty years from now with fingers gnarled by athritis and thick, thick glasses to recover some vision will be playing SPWAW on huge 30" monitors, headphones on to eliminate the use of hearing aids and saying in that old creaky voice of the old farts, "Give 'em Hell, boys!"

WB

[Fallschirmjager]

Please go read my comment in the other thread.

I never meant stop playing the game or designing scenarios for it.

I simply meant that its time to stop with the updates and move on to other projects.

And im not actually mad about.

Others have been waiting for it far longer than I have. I realize new games and new engines take time. But the hours Matrix spends updating SPWaW has been at the expense of other projects.

I think Les had the best post in this thread. The steel panthers engine is aging and has been that way for a while. Its time to move on to bigger and better things.

Thats what I meant to say earlier.
Disagree if you wish.
But its how I feel.

[Wild Bill]

Well evidently you did not read my post prior to yours. I said I was joking and that all of this was said in good humor, FJ. Read what I said.

I took no offense at what you said...never have. I hope we can formulate a sense of humor on this forum again. I miss it.

I'll put in more smilies next time so you will know I'm kidding. We gotta get off this serious, senstive kick and have some fun.

Its mainly about having fun and comradeship, isn't it boys?

So let me apologize to you Fallshirmjager if I offended you by this reply. I meant no harm, just a moment of levity in a vary serious, sometimes too serious world.

WB

[Fallschirmjager]

I actually had already started typing my post before you entered in yours so I never read it.
I was not offended and as a matter of fact, I have never been offended by anything on these forums (AOW included).

I should have choosen my words more carefully on the other thread.

"Out to pasture" to me, means letting the game gracfully retire from being the workhorse it has been. Its the horse you go out and pet and feed apples too. But its racing days are over.
Matrix has new throughbreads in the stables. They just need some development time.

[Wild Bill]

Agreed, FJ. Again, you did nothing wrong. You have a valid point. Nothing is forever. The fact that the old girl hung around this long is a living testimony to its "classic" status.

Those of us who have delved into the innards of this game are still amazed at what can be done.

I've done scenario design and other work in at least a dozen other games but I have to say that nothing touches the SP system as to versatility.

But yes, time to move on. I'll ride that new horse when it comes out, but I'll still be headed out to feed and give the old SPWAW fillie a run around the pasture.

We are agreed.

WB

[John David]

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager


"Out to pasture" to me, means letting the game gracfully retire from being the workhorse it has been. Its the horse you go out and pet and feed apples too. But its racing days are over.
Matrix has new throughbreads in the stables. They just need some development time.

Hey FJ, don't forget that when they put an old racehorse out to pasture, alot of times it's so it can go to the Stud Farm! Not a bad way to go huh. How many of us would like to be able to do that too![:D]

As I said in the original thread, I took no offence, and I have always respected your opinion, so If I misunderstood and used the Bugs Bunny blast on you, you know it was with tounge in cheek!

So, since were all using this pasture and horse description for SPWAW, I will endeavor to look upon SPWAW as the Secretariat of the wargamming community. Not bad , being compared to IMO, the greatest race horse in history![8D]

JD

[STEELER13]

ORIGINAL: The research and time taken to devote to the 8.2 SPWaW update could just as well have been applied towards CL's development. In this light, I understand his frustration, even though many of us who contributed to 8.2 are playing no role in CL. Nevertheless, we shouldn't judge his comments too harshly.

Yo Gunny,
I am a bit confused to this strategy. Maybe unintentionally, but CL has taken on the subtitle of "next generation SPWAW". Many SPWAW fans here and on other forums have been awaiting CL for at least 3 years(first post still existing on CL forum dates to 2001...but I think the game was mentioned first at end of 2000).
Now given that, given that the target audience for such a game seems to be(please correct me if I am wrong) SPWAW fans, then your point above about many people who contributed to 8.2 not being involved in CL seems to strike a chord. I mentioned at the start of development for MCSE/8.0 that if CL was on the table for Xmas2003 that there might be an overlap of people for both. I was led to believe that wasn't the case, that the personnel in the MC would not be involved whatsoever with CL. That surprised and disturbed me a bit because many of the names from MCSE/8.0 I thought were people who would be working on CL given past contributions to SP.
So I guess three questions I have for you: Is CL supposed to be next-generation SPWAW--putting it out to pasture so to speak? If so, to what extent are the greats involved with SPWAW involved with CL? I personally believe that if many of the people who had been involved with MCSE/8.0 were included in developing CL, this program would have been out last Christmas. Not diminishing the effort on the part of CL's team---just expressing a personal opinion.
I mentioned about an absence of posts from WB on the CL forum and was assured he is listed in the credits on www.combatleader.net. Good but how long ago was that list of credits created? Is it still relevant. Also, judging by lack of posts on the CL forum, there seems to be a gradual loss of interest in that game, while here there were more posts in a single thread about MC nationality than whole CL forum has had in the last month. This leads to my third question:is there really more interest in another SPWAW MC than in CL?
Maybe, Gunny, you can post a poll about what people would rather spend $50 on---another 2 MC's or CL? Unscientific it may be but many companies do marketing surveys to decide where to direct resources and energy into producing a product that people want. I do think CL will win the poll, but if it doesn't it might signify some need for marketing CL.
Just a thought.
Not trying to offend anyone...guess I am just another frustrated and impatient, but also worried that CL may become vaporware despite all the hard work of Paul Webber and others on CL team. Many people have invested many hours creating OOB's, sounds, graphics, scenarios, manuals, AAR reports, tournaments, and many other items that have made SPWAW continue 7 years longer than it would have, and yet the only one who controls SPWAW's future, has not given an indication of what that future may be. After 2 years and no MC's being sold, we were given access to MC's via download AND a new MC AND a new OOB. What else can we expect?
Thanks.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Going on only what I can actually see (in the relevant credits of each game), there is really only a few (and that means 3-4 names, not a handful) names that have commonality on both the CL and MC-SE credits.

And I am assuming it is no surprise that David Heath Marc Schwanebeck and Bill Wilder are 3 of them.

That said, I think CL is likely the efforts of a different mob.

As for buying CL or 2 additional MCs, hmm let me think.
Nah I would eat beans for a while and get all of them

But I don't consider CL a suped up Steel Panthers (in my opinion). What little I have gleaned from browsng the occasional CL thread, tells me CL is going to be a major revision of the entire experience.

For me, it looks like going from horse drawn to automobile.
Horse though are great, don't get me wrong

I am not overly worried that MCs will negatively impact the creation of CL. I am mildly concerned. But that concern is more a matter of company financial commitments directed elsewhere, and not manpower available.

A few well timed MCs might even be acceptable financial benefits if carried off well.

[Alby]

DITTO!![:)]