German Naval Air Power

[kentkroeckel]

German naval air power is wholly unrealistic and wrecks game play for the 1943-1945 and 1944-1945 campaign. With the editor it would be nice to halve the effect of German air on naval activity but there is also another way which can be accomplished with a click.

Transport capacity: Historically, Germany could not decimate Allied naval resources from late 1943 onward. However, in WitW system, the Luftwaffe is able to severely degrade Allied naval transport and naval logistics.

And yes, I am aware of Axis U-Boat (Submarine and surface raiders) history. But by the end of 1943 surface raiders were a thing of the past. Raider E-Boats still operated in Atlantic but had no strategic impact at this point of the conflict.

German naval air launching from Norway and France had been reduced in effectiveness by this time in the conflict as well.

The U-Boat, by fall of 1943 was being massacred. No longer was there an area in Mid Atlantic were Allied air did not protect. This meant Allied resources were protected from port to port. Additionally naval technology allowed Allies to destroy submarines by the dozens per month.

Problem: In the 1943-1945 and 1944-1945 campaigns German air is able to destroy Allied naval capacity; even though the Luftwaffe never had this capacity. Many a challenge has ended prematurely due to Allies not being able to stay on an Italian beach. In the 1945 campaign this Axis capacity no longer exists so all is good on this point.


Simple Solution: In the 1943-1945 and 1944-1945 campaign place Allied transport capacity to 200%. This will allow German player to still be able to concentrate on Allied naval transport if wished; just will not be as effective. Very realistic.

[GeneralBalderdash]

do you mean Transport Level to 200?

Or logistics level to 200?

or another setting

[Bo Rearguard]

It's been suggested limiting Axis naval patrol missions to just naval air squadrons, rather than regular bomber squadrons might help, but I agree that Axis naval air as currently constructed almost breaks the game. Sure, they'll lose a lot bombers to Allied air superiority, but if an Allied invasion of Europe is cut off by interdiction for even a few turns it's worth the sacrifice, as that can be the game.

There was talk that a naval module would eventually be added to the game during it's initial development but it must have fallen by the wayside. It has always struck me as odd that the two largest navies in the world seem to have almost no presence in the game currently. Especially, when you look at the staggering Allied transport losses that often occur. The vast fleet of ASW escorts that the Allies historically fielded just doesn't seem to be a factor leaving it mostly to Allied air patrols to counter the attrition.

[kentkroeckel]

Thank you Mr. Bo Rearguard for you comment. I read it a couple times to get the layers of detail out of it.

I too was under the impression that a more extensive naval system was going to be added to WitW. There would be Leaders / admirals who would add command presence to invasions / task forces. Unfortunately, game designers moved on before adding it. I guess it was too complicated to pursue in one of the several updates. In retrospect, probably should have been part of the game from the beginning. Ultimately, interest was dedicated to WitE2, which left WitW orphaned; except for (Operation Torch) as token finality. To speak bluntly, Operation Torch should have been just another update along with the naval expansion / completion. But that would have not been good economics. Just my bias opinion. Ha.

Your comment Mr. Bo Rearguard, on limiting Axis naval patrols to just naval designated aircraft is brilliant. I would say this could even be applied to both sides; though Allied air naval operations would be impacted minimally. This change would not effect game play in a negative way either. WitW is not (Battle for the Atlantic). WitW has just enough naval aspects to be fun and realistic in game play. That is why I would not add leader / admiral aspects to it. Just fix the Axis imbalance.

Bo Rearguard solution: Only torpedo planes, patrol aircraft, and naval only Level bombers (Axis and Allies) may commence naval air missions. Brilliant solution!!!

[kentkroeckel]

Thank you for comment Mr. General Balderdash. The challenge for clarification is well founded.

At the start of the 1943-1945 grand campaign the Allied troop transport pool is around 205; as best I remember. Allies start the challenge with an invasion of Sicily. Of course this can be altered but there is probibly going to be an invasion of of Corsica, Sardinia, and or Sicily. Additionally, Mainland Italy has to be invaded or else Germany gets -400 victory points in February of 1944. All of this is good too, logical and historical.

The problem is that if the Axis player commits all naval aircraft along with all level bombers; an imbalance is created. Below your comment, Mr. Bo Rearguard presented an elegant yet effective solution. (Only naval aircraft may conduct naval operations). This might be enough to offset most of the imbalance. but given the current setup a solution should be introduced. To be clear, when I play Germany I too dedicate all level bombers to naval interdiction. This creates a huge game imbalance and non historical situation as well.

Solution: Change Allied transport capacity to 200%.

I assume this category refers to naval capacity of unit transport only. However, if this increases air unit transport as well, it would not be much of an impact on game play. This solution still allows the Axis player to still impact Allied naval operations but limits to the extent this can be implemented.

I have looked at increasing Allied naval logistics as well but am not sure to what level of impact they are effected by Axis naval interference. Yet I am aware of how Allied landings get strangled on supply. And not in a historical way either. So I would say that maybe a 50% increase of Allied logistics would bring that in line with game play. I did not want to alter this because its manipulation could cascade into other aspects but do feel something has to be done for supplying landings. Transport capacity increase alone would not be sufficient.

[Bo Rearguard]

Bo Rearguard solution: Only torpedo planes, patrol aircraft, and naval only Level borers (Axis and Allies) may commence naval air missions. Brilliant solution!!!

I can't take credit as the idea has been floated in the forum before. However, it did always strike me as strange that Ju-88 pilots trained mostly for army ground support were so good in this game at knocking off ships.

[Denniss]

use your own aircraft on naval support mission to counter Axis interdiction levels.
I dont know if Air Superiority missions help suppressing axis naval support mission but this wont harm to have.

[kentkroeckel]

thank you Mr. Dennis for your response.

What you propose is good advise and I believe it is done by seasoned players. The issue I have found unresolved though, is damage a Task Force takes on beaches. They can be wiped out in just a few turns. More devastating though, is the pool of troop amphibious transports that diminishes quickly. When it is cut in half, from 205 to a 100, then Allied sea lift capacity is over. Only a couple infantry divisions a week or one armored division. this part of the equation needs to be rectified I believe. Please let me write me your thoughts on this issue Mr. Denniss. I do so want to read a solution to this.

Sincerely, Kent Kroeckel

[GeneralBalderdash]

Thank you for comment Mr. General Balderdash. The challenge for clarification is well founded.

At the start of the 1943-1945 grand campaign the Allied troop transport pool is around 205; as best I remember. Allies start the challenge with an invasion of Sicily. Of course this can be altered but there is probibly going to be an invasion of of Corsica, Sardinia, and or Sicily. Additionally, Mainland Italy has to be invaded or else Germany gets -400 victory points in February of 1944. All of this is good too, logical and historical.

The problem is that if the Axis player commits all naval aircraft along with all level bombers; an imbalance is created. Below your comment, Mr. Bo Rearguard presented an elegant yet effective solution. (Only naval aircraft may conduct naval operations). This might be enough to offset most of the imbalance. but given the current setup a solution should be introduced. To be clear, when I play Germany I too dedicate all level bombers to naval interdiction. This creates a huge game imbalance and non historical situation as well.

Solution: Change Allied transport capacity to 200%.

I assume this category refers to naval capacity of unit transport only. However, if this increases air unit transport as well, it would not be much of an impact on game play. This solution still allows the Axis player to still impact Allied naval operations but limits to the extent this can be implemented.

I have looked at increasing Allied naval logistics as well but am not sure to what level of impact they are effected by Axis naval interference. Yet I am aware of how Allied landings get strangled on supply. And not in a historical way either. So I would say that maybe a 50% increase of Allied logistics would bring that in line with game play. I did not want to alter this because its manipulation could cascade into other aspects but do feel something has to be done for supplying landings. Transport capacity increase alone would not be sufficient.

Sorry - for further clarification

Is that done by setting transport lvl to 200 under Game Options?

Or do you need to do in and edit a file ?

just a little confused.....

[kentkroeckel]

Thank you for your response Mr. Balderdash. Under game improvement post I have proposed changes to game using the editor. I wish designers would implement them but that will not happen. Additionally, most of the suggestions have been given by observations of others. Credit is given to them for solutions. I have only tried to create the formula that would help with game play after receiving their corrections.

But in this post I have only considered game balance using options in setting up a contest. In other words, things that anyone could use if they wish to correct some of the game play imbalance. Not perfect in any way but I think at least better than what is present in normal scenario.

Answer: Setting Allies at two hundred percent for transportation will reduce Axis effect on naval transport. This will help get back closer to historical amounts.

I recommend you take a look at my comment on administrative points for a campaign game. Writing it now.

Sincerely, Kent Kroeckel