WitW Game Improvements

[kentkroeckel]

I decided to start this post because there are many good suggestions for game play improvement. Maybe with the game editor these could be implemented. Please comment if you feel there is an additional issue that needs to be addressed.



Imbalance of Axis being able to destroy Allied naval power:
Proposed solution by Mr. Bo Rearguard.

To reduce Axis ability in control of sea hexes and Allied task force damage, have Naval only aircraft conduct naval air operations. This would apply to aircraft of Germany and Allies. Category of aircraft would include torpedo bombers, patrol aircraft, and finally, naval only level bombers.

[kentkroeckel]

I decided to start this post because there are many good suggestions for game play improvement. Maybe with the game editor these could be implemented. Please comment if you feel there is an additional issue that needs to be addressed.



Rail repair Inadequate for Germany and Allies:
Proposed solution by Mr. Matchwood

Germany is not able to repair rail directly because they have no rail repair Headquarter / division unit. A simple solution has been suggested by Mr. Matchwood. In the editor add a RR unit. Love the idea. It would operate just as the Allies do too. I have thought about the quantity too. I think two would be the correct. One stationed in Italy while the other could be in France.


Allies suffer from an inability to repair sufficient rail, despite having non assigned construction engineers supposedly helping out. Often they do not. Two ways to solve this.

First is to double the amount of RR units for Allies.

Another way is to reduce cost of each repaired hex to one regardless of weather or terrain. I think this would be the best way. It would mean that any hex an Allied RR unit was on or passed through would have rail fixed. It seems a simple fix and logical in the correction. To keep it a simple solution for editor, Axis RR units repair at the cost of just one too.

[kentkroeckel]

I decided to start this post because there are many good suggestions for game play improvement. Maybe with the game editor these could be implemented. Please comment if you feel there is an additional issue that needs to be addressed.



Rail repair update
Proposed solution by Mr. Matchwood and refined by Metalist and Kent Kroeckel. In other words a progressive solution.

Germany should get two railroad units. One should stay in Europe while the other stays in Italy, until after France invasion. This is so that partisan attacks still have an affect.

Axis rail repair should be one hex per turn. Workable but challenging. An important change is that an Axis RR unit is never out of supply. Meaning, if rail gets cut behind it, repair can still happen. This repair happens after movement so when Axis RR units ends its turn on a damaged hex the rail is automatically repaired. The Axis RR unit moves as if on rail so ignores terrain cost when repairing and moving on good rail.


Allies still have a problem with repair. To fix this, just change cost of hex repair to one. This would allow An Allied RR unit to repair 16 hexes per turn.


I think these solutions fix the rail dilemma for both sides without negatively affecting game play.

[kentkroeckel]

I decided to start this post because there are many good suggestions for game play improvement. Maybe with the game editor these could be implemented. Please comment if you feel there is an additional issue that needs to be addressed.



Fortifications:
There is an imbalance when it comes to fortifications. Germany builds them much quicker than Allies. This makes for an unrealistic situation. Axis units create a 3 level fortification in a short time but often German resources were used to make these walls of defense. Look at the fortifications of Normandy; heavy cement structures along with massive guns. This represents fortification resources but not in game play. This is where fortification units should have been represented, not just units. There is a difference when a unit digs in and when it is provided with created defenses.


Solution:
In the editor reduce German fortification production to the same as Allies. This will reduce every hex being fortified to unrealistic levels. Let us say in half, from what I have seen.

Second:
A normal ground hex cannot be fortified beyond one level. City and town limit set at two fortification level. Any challenging ground hex already has a bonus due to its difficulty so does not need additional fortification increase from just a unit being upon it.

Third:
A fortification unit creates a fortification from three to five. A normal hex gets three fortification level. A town can grow to four and city can grow to five. Same as game now. But fortification units start at three level. This formula forces Germany to invest administrative points to create defensive walls. It is realistic.

Addition: I would also set administrative points to two hundred percent for Axis. This would allow Axis to utilize more fortifications for defensive walls while also being able to select leaders. I would set Allies administrative points at four hundred percent. This would allow Allies to utilize their abundance of flak as well as selecting leaders.


I have not worked out all the specifics so there are incomplete parts with this proposal but this does provide an overall idea.

[Wiedrock]

I decided to start this post because there are many good suggestions for game play improvement. Maybe with the game editor these could be implemented. Please comment if you feel there is an additional issue that needs to be addressed.



Fortifications:
There is an imbalance when it comes to fortifications. Germany builds them much quicker than Allies. This makes for an unrealistic situation. Axis units create a 3 level fortification in a short time but often German resources were used to make these walls of defense. Look at the fortifications of Normandy; heavy cement structures along with massive guns. This represents fortification resources but not in game play. This is where fortification units should have been represented, not just units. There is a difference when a unit digs in and when it is provided with created defenses.


Solution:
In the editor reduce German fortification production to the same as Allies. This will reduce every hex being fortified to unrealistic levels. Let us say in half, from what I have seen.

Second:
A normal ground hex cannot be fortified beyond one level. City and town limit set at two fortification level. Any challenging ground hex already has a bonus due to its difficulty so does not need additional fortification increase from just a unit being upon it.

Third:
A fortification unit creates a fortification from three to five. A normal hex gets three fortification level. A town can grow to four and city can grow to five. Same as game now. But fortification units start at three level. This formula forces Germany to invest administrative points to create defensive walls. It is realistic.

Addition: I would also set administrative points to two hundred percent for Axis. This would allow Axis to utilize more fortifications for defensive walls while also being able to select leaders. I would set Allies administrative points at four hundred percent. This would allow Allies to utilize their abundance of flak as well as selecting leaders.


I have not worked out all the specifics so there are incomplete parts with this proposal but this does provide an overall idea.

What the levels may represent:
WitW Manual does not seem to have such a definition of the levels, so this is from WitE2.

The different levels of fortification in the game reflect
the amount of preparation and resources available. The
following gives some idea what each level reflects:

• Level 1 - Hasty dug-in defensive positions with some
  earthen (just dirt) overhead cover. Heavy weapons
  are in basic defilade without overhead cover. Minimal
  camouflage. Can be accomplished within a week.
• Level 2 - Continued position improvement with squad
  trenches and crew served weapons pits. Moderate
  camouflage. Additional week or two.
• Level 3 - Connected trench networked system with both
  primary and alternate dug-in positions. Crew served
  positions in earthen bunkers with overhead cover.
  Additional week or two. More extensive camouflage.
  Typical WW1 or static eastern front positions.
• Level 4 - Introduction of interlocking concrete field
  fortifications with elaborate defensive engineering works
  - tank traps, minefields, etc. Examples are the Panther
  Line and West Wall. Field units are not able to build these
  on their own and require substantial engineering assets
  and planning over a period of 3-6 months.
• Level 5 - The only true “forts” in the game. Massive
  defensive works that take years to build. Sevastopol is
  an example of this type of fortification.

Additionally, the game(s) are having rather large attacker benefits by being able to attack from multiple Hexes with many CUs, SUs and HQs as one likes while also being able to focus Air Missions on target hexes. Just something to keep in mind.

The costs:

Axis units create a 3 level fortification in a short time but often German resources were used to make these walls of defense. Look at the fortifications of Normandy; heavy cement structures along with massive guns. This represents fortification resources but not in game play. This is where fortification units should have been represented, not just units. There is a difference when a unit digs in and when it is provided with created defenses.

Supply costs for fortification construction are as follows:
Fortification 0->1: 1 ton per fortification point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
Fortification 1->2: 2 tons per fortification point (no cost for isolated units, construction rate is halved)
Fortification 2->3: 20 tons per fortification point
Fortification 3->4 200 tons per fortification point
Fortification 4->5: 2000 tons per fortification point
Each fortification point represents two percent towards the next fortification level

[kentkroeckel]

Fortifications:
Thank you Mr. Wiedrock. This is the most detail I have seen on fortifications, with invaluable breakdown on subject matter.


My thought on this that German units are able to achieve level three fortification in short fashion and without a fortification unit. This makes nearly every hex a challenge but I do not feel this to be accurate historically. More importantly, under present version of WitW; Allies are not able to move against Axis line defenses. I am not referencing true fortifications such as level four or five, which I feel should require a fortification unit to achieve these. I also would like to see a normal terrain hex require a fortification unit for a level three fortification on normal hex. Town could be four and city could be five with fortification with a fortification unit.

WitW would then incorporate fortification units as an intricate part of German defense. I believe this would enrich the game. But doing this requires more administrative points for Germany. it needs to be increased to double. 10 + 10. This would also allow Germany to have options in changing leaders. As of now there are not enough administrative points. Only five until French invasion, when playing the 1943-1945 campaign. I would start the scenario off with 20 administrative points for Germany so that leaders could be chosen, flak could be moved / assigned to cities, fortifications could be built, and finally, units in France could be motorized again. All of these aspects would, I believe, make game play for the German player more entertaining. I also do not believe game play would be altered in a perverse way while creating Axis abilities more inline with historical choices.


Allies should get 4 times of administrative points so that they could place their abundance of flak on invasion sites. This increase would also allow Allies to place construction engineers on improvements that require direct attention. this would include depots and air bases but also rail. this last point is particularly disturbing. Rail is something that Allies should be able to repair at will but plagued by the limit of RR units. Yes, some hexes are fixed by unassigned construction engineers, but not near enough.

My proposals are not perfect and I am sure there are many unforeseen consequences. So all I am suggesting is a starting point for game improvement. Because, from what I have seen Mr. Wiedrock, in the present WitW version; there is a substantial game imbalance.

[LiquidSky]

The Axis do not need to repair rail lines. They should never be in a position to push forward far enough for it to matter without the game being over as an Axis win. The allies do not need to destroy Axis rail with cheezy paradrops. They can easily suppress the rail lines and prevent the flow of supplies with air interdiction. As well, they will be destroying a lot of Axis trucks from interdiction which will strangle the flow of supplies too far from a depot. This by far is what strangles the German front line for supply.

The allies do not need flak to protect the beaches from the Axis airforce. There should not be an Axis airforce when you land. The allies have a lot of aircraft. They should be destroying the Axis airforce on the ground with airbase bombing. They should be flying air superiority over the beaches and water ways. The Axis bombers have a half life. They will lose about half the bombers they use on any given turn. They cannot escort them. And they are not going to be replaced. And because of all the recon aircraft the allies have, they can not hide, only sit far enough back to not be destroyed which is also too far to do naval patrol.

The allies have a lot of support units. Every attack HQ should have a dozen artillery units. Each frontline division should have 3 support units. Engineers, multi-purpose tank brigades, etc. A level 3 fort will not be a level 3 fort at the end of combat, so if you lose the first attack, you should win the second. I usually have a corp specifically designed to combat strongpoints. The HQ has heavy artillery, the 9 divisions each have 3 engineers. Also make use of Reserve units behind the line for added punch.

[kentkroeckel]

Mr. Liquid Sky

Introduction:
Thank you Mr. Liquid Sky for your response, as it means much to WitW community. Nice to see it exists even after so many years. Since 2014 if I remember correctly. I will try to be concise but some topics will take a bit to clarify. And as always, it’s okay to view issues differently. We just need to respect other opinions despite reaching a different conclusions.


Mr. Liquid Sky comment:
The Axis do not need to repair rail lines. They should never be in a position to push forward far enough for it to matter without the game being over as an Axis win.

Kent Response:
I believe I need to clarify the purpose of adding an Axis Rail Road unit / headquarters. The point Metalist and other commentator were saying was; when an Axis rail is cut, there should be some way for Germany to repair it. Having one unit would open up opportunity for this without changing game play. Limiting repair to just one hex per turn would also keep partisan action relevant. I liked how Metalist suggested one Axis RR unit in Europe and one based in Italy. I think it to be a good balance.


Mr. Liquid Sky comment:
The allies do not need to destroy Axis rail with cheesy paradrops. They can easily suppress the rail lines and prevent the flow of supplies with air interdiction. As well, they will be destroying a lot of Axis trucks from interdiction which will strangle the flow of supplies too far from a depot. This by far is what strangles the German front line for supply.

Kent Response:
From the first sentence I can assume that you feel paratroop assaults are not an effective tool in cutting Axis rail, logistics, capturing depots, and securing tactical cities / ports. I disagree with this conclusion. But let us look at your point Mr. Sky. You are correct in assessing that air assault drops can and often are costly (cheesy). Much in material is consumed, often casualty rates are high, and deep drops are difficult to secure. Victory points are always lost in this endeavor; just like amphibious landings.

To counter this, success is rewarded in the above mentioned categories. And in fact Mr. Sky, your next several sentences confirm value in cutting the Axis logistics. ‘Using air assets to interdict Axis rail and depots is good.’ It seems the only difference on this topic is achieving it. Your tool would be air missions while I would add air assaults and amphibious invasions as additional methods.


Mr. Liquid Sky comment:
The allies do not need flak to protect the beaches from the Axis air force. There should not be an Axis air force when you land. The allies have a lot of aircraft. The Axis bombers have a half life. They will lose about half the bombers they use on any given turn. They cannot escort them. And they are not going to be replaced. They should be flying air superiority over the beaches and water ways.

Kent Response:
In the 1943-1945 campaign Germany surely has sufficient aircraft to impede Allied naval invasions. In my present challenge with Metalist, the Luftwaffe has lost 36,000 aircraft. And yes, Allies do have more aircraft than Axis. But still, Germany can dedicate so many to naval interdiction to cause significant harm in 1943 through 1944. At least that is what I have observed in the most current WitW edition. I am also only talking on historical setup. Germany having East Front Control (ON) adds more to this imbalance.


Mr. Liquid Sky comment:
They should be destroying the Axis airforce on the ground with airbase bombing. And because of all the recon aircraft the allies have, they can not hide, only sit far enough back to not be destroyed which is also too far to do naval patrol.

Kent Response:
Your comment above is personal to me and in fact have had a conversation with Metalist over this issue. But I am getting ahead of myself. As the updated version is now; Axis player can attack allied planes and then during ground phase move aircraft. This means the Allied player has no knowledge of where the Axis planes are parked.

It sounds like, Mr. Sky, you have not played someone who exploits this loophole. This nullifies Allied reconnaissance to a certain degree. Let us say, 6 hex range average. This means, if there are seven air bases in the area, any could be correct. Or another way to say it; one day of bombing will be right if one base is hit each day of week.

So to recap, Axis air can hide somewhat on airbases, within a few hexes. Allied reconnaissance is rendered zero if Axis prepositions air assets after missions. Final point; Luftwaffe level bombers are able to position far back from front. Most have range from medium to long. I would say anything with 30 or more is able to stay out of harms way, rotating from base to base. Just takes a skilled German player. When I play as Axis I keep air units moving between several locations. Only a few will ever be hit on ground.


Mr. Liquid Sky comment:
The allies have a lot of support units. Every attack HQ should have a dozen artillery units. Each front line division should have 3 support units. Engineers, multi-purpose tank brigades, etc. A level 3 fort will not be a level 3 fort at the end of combat, so if you lose the first attack, you should win the second.

Kent Response:
Every seasoned player does load up units. Divisions have three support units, Brigades have two. American Corps headquarters have twelve artillery units while all other nationalities have ten. You can also add a chemical battalion to Corps when they are present. However, fortifications of four and five do not disappear quickly. Weather reduces effectiveness. Terrain creates nightmares.


Mr. Liquid Sky comment:
I usually have a Corps specifically designed to combat strong points. The HQ has heavy artillery, the 9 divisions each have 3 engineers. Also make use of Reserve units behind the line for added punch.

Kent Response:
I understand what you are saying in having a Corps dedicated to certain tasks. For example, airborne Corps designation help with airborne units behind line. They are not really isolated.

Your next comment, I believe you meant that all units in a Corps are given three engineers. Yes to that too; as I do that too to some.

I am sure Mr. Sky; you meant five divisions instead of nine. Each division counts for two command points so five would get you to ten points.

Reserve units are good too, as they add in combat either helping Allies or negating, as Germany often does with them.

One additional item I would add Mr. Sky, is sending a Task Force if an attacked or defending hex is along the coastline.


In conclusion Mr. Liquid Sky; I am not claiming to have a perfect answer for each aspect for game play. What I am saying is given the current version of WitW; I feel many changes should be made to improve game play; which would also improve game balance. As it is now, Germany has a significant advantage. Even in suggested strategies for players it is recommended for Allies to limit attacks. Good way to save victory points but makes game play unrealistic. This is why designers offered option to give and take victory point for German city bombing. The hope was to force Allied player to attack rather than just hold in France.

[LiquidSky]

When the game starts, as the Germans, I will spend admin points every turn on several very important missions.

1st. Transferring flak to the Ruhr. There is a lot of 'surplus' flak units spread all over Germany guarding things such as ports or minor factory hexes. I move all that to the city hexes of the Ruhr. The bigger Flak units are more expensive, so I usually move them later.

2nd. Building airfields. Since there are hexes that are going to be protected by flak anyways, I build airfields on them. Every location in the ruhr with a factory gets an airfield. Maxed out to level 3.

3rd. Building depots. Every railyard hex gets a depot as a start. Others if it makes sense positionally. All depots changed to level 4. This is why I feel the 'paradrop' strategy of trying to destroy my supply is fruitless for the allies. By mid 1944 I should have a full depot practically everywhere in France. The idea is that a unit within 3 hexes doesn't need trucks to get supply and I assure you that trucks are the achilles heel of the German logistical system.

4th. Disbanding units. Germans cannot be shy about disbanding. Some units are better for their components. For example their are a number of motorized SS brigades that show up with a thousand or more trucks. I disband them so the trucks are used for general logistics. Crappy LW divisions. Some of them I scrap for the manpower. Fort lines in useless places such as the alps between Germany and Italy.

By the time spring 1944 rolls around, the Ruhr is packed with lots of AA. Each hex a level 3 airfield stacked with German fighters. Every city in France a depot which is full of supply. If one depot is cut off from Germany, another will be nearby that isn't.

This is not to say that this is an 'I win' strategy for the Germans. I find that because of constant Allied interdiction attacks, my trucks will attrit away to the point that it effects the combat ability of my mechanized units. But at least my units should have enough supply to defend.

[kentkroeckel]

German Supply in France

Mr. Liquid Sky has given us another wonderful response on how he tackles Germany tactics. I will respond to each element. Again, thank you Mr. Liquid Sky.

Mr. Liquid introduction to us:
When the game starts, as the Germans, I will spend admin points every turn on several very important missions.

Mr. Liquid Sky first point:
1st. Transferring flak to the Ruhr. There is a lot of 'surplus' flak units spread all over Germany guarding things such as ports or minor factory hexes. I move all that to the city hexes of the Ruhr. The bigger Flak units are more expensive, so I usually move them later.

Kent first Response:
I believe most seasoned players would agree with you Mr. Liquid Sky on point 1. All of German strategic targets should have as near a 9 / 9 flak level. For those not familiar, the first nine represents low altitude (12,000 feet) and the second nine represents high altitude (25,000 feet). Bombers can be set from one thousand feet to realistically, thirty-seven thousand feet. There is a mid range for reconnaissance which is an altitude of 18,000 feet. I do not believe though that flak is represented as a separate number in this category. Of course any piece that has sufficient altitude does engage. One exception is flak that is one hex away from flight path. They are not able to engage if aircraft are below 10,000 feet.


Mr. Liquid Sky second point:
2nd. Building airfields. Since there are hexes that are going to be protected by flak anyways, I build airfields on them. Every location in the ruhr with a factory gets an airfield. Maxed out to level 3.

Kent second Response:
Metalist has done well playing Germany and does much of what you are describing in point 2. Metalist has had most active airfields in France with substantial flak. Allied strategic and tactical bombing hexes have flak and an airbase. Some players do not add air bases to main Axis cities and strategic sites but I do that too, as you also Mr. Liquid Sky. However, I do not go to level three, as I am usually am spreading out the Luftwaffe among many cities and sites. Just a level one is fine for me.


Mr. Liquid Sky third point:
3rd. Building depots. Every railyard hex gets a depot as a start. Others if it makes sense positionally. All depots changed to level 4. This is why I feel the 'paradrop' strategy of trying to destroy my supply is fruitless for the allies. By mid 1944 I should have a full depot practically everywhere in France. The idea is that a unit within 3 hexes doesn't need trucks to get supply and I assure you that trucks are the achilles heel of the German logistical system. By the time spring 1944 rolls around, the Ruhr is packed with lots of AA. Each hex a level 3 airfield stacked with German fighters. Every city in France a depot which is full of supply. If one depot is cut off from Germany, another will be nearby that isn't.

Kent third Response:
If I understand correctly, you place depots nearest the contact line at level four priority; as the manual recommends. This is good. Your comment continues by saying how Germany should add several depots in France and I am sure you include Italy. The manual would confirm this, as one should have the shortest line from unit to supply source. When playing either side I also follow the manual advice by trying to have a depots for every active air base. I want to only see white (rail) and blue (naval) lines when displaying areas behind contact line. Red lines means trucks are being used. No reason for this in England and Mediterranean.

Part B:
Your comment on the use of airborne units being ‘futile’ I feel is inaccurate. Each challenge is different to some degree, even by same players. With your setup and style of play, perhaps airborne attacks on logistics would not be fruitful. But then maybe in another area there would be a weakness. Or maybe some hexes would not have garrison units to prevent drops. Just saying, different styles can create a new challenge.

Part C:
You mentioned playing during Covid but a newer version of WitW came out in, I think 2020. I believe that is when German naval air was given an increase in effectiveness. You may not have seen its full potential as of late Mr. Liquid Sky. Germany can really reduce Allied naval capacity if fully committed by Luftwaffe.

Part D:
The German truck deficiency you often reference Mr. Liquid Sky is a subject I am not qualified to discuss. Metalist has delved into this top at length, as you have. Both have done great research. I just keep it simple. As your last line in point three states; ‘Do not have units trace supply more than they have to’. Five hexes should be the max and whichever side I play I too build as many depots as possible. In that we are in agreement, as the manual would support this goal too.


Mr. Liquid Sky fourth point:
4th. Disbanding units. Germans cannot be shy about disbanding. Some units are better for their components. For example their are a number of motorized SS brigades that show up with a thousand or more trucks. I disband them so the trucks are used for general logistics. Crappy LW divisions. Some of them I scrap for the manpower. Fort lines in useless places such as the alps between Germany and Italy.

Kent fourth response:
Disbanding units is a sensitive subject. Some players feel it should never be done. I myself do disband units when playing either side. Causes are warranted when gain can outweigh permanent loss.

Example as Allied player in current game: Allies needed one more attack but an armored division was stacked with two unready brigades. I disbanded them so that two more divisions could stack up and attack. This sacrifice made a difference in taking a hex row in Italy.

Scrapping fortifications can be a yes or no; as it depends on how game is going. One thing I am surprised at, is how few German players take advantage of inner Italian hexes. Instead of the four point administrative cost for a fortification, they only cost one. I like to place at least forty for blocking Allied advance.


Mr. Liquid Sky conclusion for WitW letter:
This is not to say that this is an 'I win' strategy for the Germans. I find that because of constant Allied interdiction attacks, my trucks will attrit away to the point that it effects the combat ability of my mechanized units. But at least my units should have enough supply to defend.

[kentkroeckel]

Hello everyone. I wanted to clarify a thought involving the movement of flak. Support units do not pay administrative points for movement when attacked to units; So flak by themselves should not either. This would be for both sides and would include normal designated flak. In other words, general flak could move (Flow) as Axis railroad flak do.

though I would take it a step further and include a basic movement when off rail lines, near the front. Say next to Zone of control but not in zone of control. This would spice up flak use for both sides without impacting significant game play. At least in a negative way or in a way that would be historically unrealistic.

Best wishes, Kent.