Questions about armored cavalry squadron OOB

[zhangan971]

According to FM 101-10-1/1 released in 1987/10/7, an armored cavalry squadron(M2 Series) should have 2 cavalry troops, each have 3 scout platoons. It should have 0 tank and 40 M3 IFVs.

equipment summary

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cavalry squadron OOB

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cavalry troop OOB

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But in the game, an armored cavalry squadron(M2 Series) has 3 cavalry troops, each have 2 scout platoons and 2 tank platoons. It has 27 tanks and 39 M3 IFVs.

OOB in game

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Is there anything wrong about the in-game OOB? Or is the resource I use too old and there's newer source?

[CapnDarwin]

Our J series was put together by a Bradley Master Gunner who served in the 80s/90s, so we consider it pretty solid. Also, your info looks out of date for pic 1, and the other two pics are the Air Cav (Helo-based) OOBs and not the ground version. I'll see if I can find an OOB reference for the ground structure.

[CapnDarwin]

From a quick Google search:
Ground Cavalry Squadrons (1st, 2nd, and 3rd Squadrons). These were the primary maneuver elements. Each of the three squadrons contained: Headquarters and Headquarters Troop (HHT), which commanded the squadron and included a mortar section.3 Armored Cavalry Troops: Each troop contained scouts, an anti-tank section, and a tank section. Early 80s troops fielded M113 Armored Personnel Carriers and M901 ITV (Improved TOW Vehicles) for scouts, alongside M60A3 Patton tanks. By the mid-to-late 1980s, these were upgraded to the M2/M3 Bradley and the M1 Abrams. Tank Company: Added to provide heavy direct-fire support (equipped with either M60A3s or M1s).Howitzer Battery: 8 organic 155mm self-propelled howitzers (M109s).

Look at page 5-32 in that FM you reference.

[zhangan971]

I see, but there's a problem. divisional cavalry squdron belongs to air aviation brigade in division 86, so the image should be the ground version.
And here is a source from "THE ARMY OF EXCELLENCE: THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE 1980s ARMY", written by John L. Romjue as part of the TRADOC historical Monograph Series, it proves that independent ACRs have 3 armored cavalry troops in a squadron, while heavy division divisional cavalry squadron consists of 2 ground troops and 2 air troops, with no tanks, at least in 1986. So the OOB on page 5-32 isn't applicable to divisional cavalry squadron.

armored cavalry squadron organization

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divisional cavalry squadron organization

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I suspect that the in-game divisional cavalry squadron might be L-series. So I use GPT V5 to search this.
Here is the question and answer:

question and answer

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It's clear that L-series is nearly the same as in-game version, while J-series is not, and the transformation happened in early 90s.

But there is another problem here. Also from "THE ARMY OF EXCELLENCE: THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE 1980s ARMY", written by John L. Romjue as part of the TRADOC historical Monograph Series, at the end of the same section, he wrote that "The protracted issue of providing tanks for the division cavalry squadron. however, appeared closed as the decade ended.35" . I try to look for files listed in footnote 35, but can't find them.

hint and footnote 35

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Other sources also suggest that some heavy division have mixed M1/M3 troops. Therefore, maybe some divisional cavalry squadrons ,especially in Europe theatre, didn't follow the standard division 86 TOE or J-series changed after it was implemented? I think we may need other official sources.

[SgtZdog]

That is one of the challenges of using these write-ups. The on paper "This is how we want to have our forces organized" doesn't always match up with the "These are the forces we actually have to organize and where we've decided to put them." So it's quite possible for both to be right, with the on paper force maybe describing a number of units not deployed, while the deployed unit that our vet source gave his experience on (and on which we based our data for the game) did have them.

Certainly, if you're designing a scenario and you don't think the tanks should be there, you don't have to leave them in. Feel free to take them out. To rework the existing scenarios we have though without the tanks isn't really practical. They would often need to be rebalanced, and quite often it would probably be to just attach some tanks from a sister unit anyway.

[zhangan971]

Thanks.