Excessive Losses?

[Speedysteve]

Hi All,

I recently started a BoB 1940 PBEM campaign with me as RAF on v.1.06.101.

How have others found combat losses on this version? No matter what my opponent tries (staggering raids (all above 10K feet, Sweeps, High escort and Close escort etc) I always achieve a 3:1 or 4:1 kill ratio. The 109's just don't seem to get the kills in and even my Hurricane's are bouncing 109's left and right (I ask them to Bounce Bombers too).

[anthonykevinluke]

Hi,

You may be interested in my observations in the v106.101 post, located above this section.

Cheers, AKL

[Speedysteve]

Thanks. Seems you had a similar experience but with BC in BTR?

I've recently started a new Campaign as Allies vs AI on BTR. I'm only upto day 7 but I've had 1 night with almost 50 RAF bombers losses at night over Essen.

Here's an example of the losses from my last BoB PBEM turn. Doesn't seem to matter what my opponent does. He'll lose 3 or 4:1. Seems excessive to me.

I don't think it's possible to revert back to an older version is it? This version seems too skewed with air losses from 1 side to the other. I also don't have any of those saved anyway!

[simovitch]

What has been your experience playing the RAF against the Luftwaffe AI?

I'm not convinced that there is some level of skill issue with the comments I am seeing here and from others. Not that I am some great player myself, but the human player can tend to be more reckless than historical commanders; the attacking side needs to pick their targets carefully if they are experiencing heavy losses.

[muppetbaby]

Lol, excessive losses, well i have a night bomber force which cannot hit a target , even amsterdam. I lost 50 Mustangs yes 50 fighting in a furball back to base from emden, i lost 16 spitfires crashing on the same airfield in Italy. Losses fair enough, but on turn 40 my night bomber raids sometimes 600 bombers cannot hit Holland let alone a target.

8th airforce can bomb but have to rest and get new planes, cos they get chopped up, i do not fly now in anything above 10% cloud, as no one can find a target.

[JeffroK]

Since the latest update I have noticed that the Luftwaffe night fighters are achieving both increased contacts and more victories per contact. Contact is made regularly in pairs and about 75% of contact results in a victory. I am in early January 1944 and I would suggest that the Luftwaffe results prior to the patch were below par, but the tweaks in the new update have gone too far.

As for BC not finding their target, it has always been atrocious, especially the Mossies of Pathfinder Force. I still cant hit Peenemunde despite 5-6 ties!
The best hint I have seen from years back is to make your raids of only 4-6 squadrons as they become less efficient as the numbers increase.

I also "feel" that 8 & 15 AF bombers are too slow at replacing aircraft and refreshing fatigue, one raid a week is the best I can do.

[Speedysteve]

What has been your experience playing the RAF against the Luftwaffe AI?

I'm not convinced that there is some level of skill issue with the comments I am seeing here and from others. Not that I am some great player myself, but the human player can tend to be more reckless than historical commanders; the attacking side needs to pick their targets carefully if they are experiencing heavy losses.

I haven’t played much against the AI on this patch.

I have recently also started a BTR PBEM against another opponent. I’m Allies and recently experienced my BC mauling. Now I don’t think I’m a muppet at this game having played BTR in its various guises since release and having helped testing here but I lost 69 BC bombers on a mission. I plotted them around other Urban areas en route, used RCM in and around the stream, decoy raid etc but the enemy NF’s just locate (there was no moon up during most of the mission) the bombers very easily and then have a constant party

[simovitch]

Guys, I will make some adjustments to night-fighter interceptions and issue a hotfix. It won't effect your PBEM's but just make sure your opponent also install sit. Stay tuned.

[Speedysteve]

Guys, I will make some adjustments to night-fighter interceptions and issue a hotfix. It won't effect your PBEM's but just make sure your opponent also install sit. Stay tuned.

Thanks for that. To confirm - it won't benefit an existing PBEM game? A new one needs to be started for it to come into effect?

A couple of other updates my side. I had changed my BC attacks further and have avoided the Ruhr for now. Spreading them out to different targets naturally helps as well. Seems to be a natural link that the larger the size of the urban target has more AA guns/Searchlights and NF's have a party over them.

My BoB game has finished with me the victor. My opponent and me will start again soon but I will take the LW this time.

[simovitch]

You can continue existing games/PBEM with the beta. Just make sure both of you load it.

[Cones2002]

Hi All,

I recently started a BoB 1940 PBEM campaign with me as RAF on v.1.06.101.

How have others found combat losses on this version? No matter what my opponent tries (staggering raids (all above 10K feet, Sweeps, High escort and Close escort etc) I always achieve a 3:1 or 4:1 kill ratio. The 109's just don't seem to get the kills in and even my Hurricane's are bouncing 109's left and right (I ask them to Bounce Bombers too).

Happens to me all the time and sometimes it can be higher. Been the case no matter the version. The attacking player lacks the micro that the defending player has.
A skilled defending player will almost always achieve a high K:D ratio, unless they make a mistake.

The primary way to reduce the loss rate is to have high endurance escorts like the P-38J and P-51.
Losses will still be high but you can bite back a bit more.

BoB wouldn't be much different from BtR in that aspect

[CHAINSAW1958]

"... I've recently started a new Campaign as Allies vs AI on BTR. I'm only upto day 7 but I've had 1 night with almost 50 RAF bombers losses at night over Essen. ..."

Sounds like a historical result given you are flying in 20% moon light. Pretty much what happened to BC when it hit Peenemunde

[Speedysteve]

"... I've recently started a new Campaign as Allies vs AI on BTR. I'm only upto day 7 but I've had 1 night with almost 50 RAF bombers losses at night over Essen. ..."

Sounds like a historical result given you are flying in 20% moon light. Pretty much what happened to BC when it hit Peenemunde

Not really from this example (although totally agree in terms of flying in moonlight and some high night raid losses were historical.) I launched at 20:00 and all raids had finished their bombing before the moon rose.

Untitled2.jpg (47.46 KiB) Viewed 119 times

[CHAINSAW1958]

"... I've recently started a new Campaign as Allies vs AI on BTR. I'm only upto day 7 but I've had 1 night with almost 50 RAF bombers losses at night over Essen. ..."

Sounds like a historical result given you are flying in 20% moon light. Pretty much what happened to BC when it hit Peenemunde

Not really from this example (although totally agree in terms of flying in moonlight and some high night raid losses were historical.) I launched at 20:00 and all raids had finished their bombing before the moon rose.Untitled2.jpg

You probably have this information "Ill have to find reference"
BC
Night Sorties for month 1943 August: 7807
Night Losses Missing and Crashed: 308; Night Loss rate per sortie: 3.95%
Night Sorties for Peenemunde 1943 August: 604
Night Losses Missing and Crashed for Peenemunde: 41; Night Loss rate per sortie: 6.79%
Night Sorties for Balance of 1943 August: 7203
Night Losses (Missing and Crashed) for Balance of 1943 August: 267; Night Loss rate per sortie: 3.71%

[Speedysteve]

I think we all know that BC suffered some high losses on particular raids. I don't think it's up for debate that it should be possible to achieve them. I think the key thing is ensuring the game model doesn't mean high losses are achieved on any night raid regardless of what the Allies do when.