The Unwanted War - Xargun (J) vs AsuRob (A)

[Xargun]

Can you post what the allies picked for choices?

Once I get the final list from Rob I sure can.

Xargun

[Xargun]

+1 to RJ comments regarding Resources and Fusan.

Be careful of increasing AF's that can/will be turned against you. You will make the B29's that much more difficult to deal with. If anything, I would SHRINK some of those places.

Why are you not focusing more on the A7M? I don't know this mod that well, so ....

Increasing air fields can definitely be turned against me, but by the time that happens that little bit won't matter much. By increasing some of them it will allow me to build the air fields out and double up on my AV support.

Looking over the aircraft I have decided to go with the George. The N1K2 George is equal or a little better in all categories when compared to the Sam. The N1K4-A George is identical to the K2 George, but has increased firepower. By using the same engine for both Army and Navy fighters (as well as a bunch of other aircraft) it will allow me to streamline my engine industry - The Ha-43 will only be used for the end game Shinden aircraft. And TBH I am still looking at the Shinden to see if its worth the cost to research and produce that one aircraft (and engine) when its only advantage over the George and Frank is roughly 50 mph top speed.

If my math is correct, I will have the Ha-45 by mid 42 when I can start stockpiling the engine for the engine bonus. That should allow me to get the N1K4-A George by mid 43. Since nothing upgrades to the Sam, I would be looking at early 44 to get that model.

Not sure if this will be a mistake but we will see I guess. This is also why I am posting this stuff here to let you guys pick my decisions apart.


Xargun

[RangerJoe]

+1 to RJ comments regarding Resources and Fusan.

Be careful of increasing AF's that can/will be turned against you. You will make the B29's that much more difficult to deal with. If anything, I would SHRINK some of those places.

Why are you not focusing more on the A7M? I don't know this mod that well, so ....

Increasing air fields can definitely be turned against me, but by the time that happens that little bit won't matter much. By increasing some of them it will allow me to build the air fields out and double up on my AV support.

Looking over the aircraft I have decided to go with the George. The N1K2 George is equal or a little better in all categories when compared to the Sam. The N1K4-A George is identical to the K2 George, but has increased firepower. By using the same engine for both Army and Navy fighters (as well as a bunch of other aircraft) it will allow me to streamline my engine industry - The Ha-43 will only be used for the end game Shinden aircraft. And TBH I am still looking at the Shinden to see if its worth the cost to research and produce that one aircraft (and engine) when its only advantage over the George and Frank is roughly 50 mph top speed.

If my math is correct, I will have the Ha-45 by mid 42 when I can start stockpiling the engine for the engine bonus. That should allow me to get the N1K4-A George by mid 43. Since nothing upgrades to the Sam, I would be looking at early 44 to get that model.

Not sure if this will be a mistake but we will see I guess. This is also why I am posting this stuff here to let you guys pick my decisions apart.


Xargun

Is that George carrier capable? Is that Sam carrier capable? That might make all of the difference in a naval air battle between carrier forces - especially if you can sink some carriers early on.

Don't necessarily compare the Shinden to the George and the Frank, compare the Shinden to the Allied fighters!

[PaxMondo]

+1 to RJ comments regarding Resources and Fusan.

Be careful of increasing AF's that can/will be turned against you. You will make the B29's that much more difficult to deal with. If anything, I would SHRINK some of those places.

Why are you not focusing more on the A7M? I don't know this mod that well, so ....

Increasing air fields can definitely be turned against me, but by the time that happens that little bit won't matter much. By increasing some of them it will allow me to build the air fields out and double up on my AV support.

Looking over the aircraft I have decided to go with the George. The N1K2 George is equal or a little better in all categories when compared to the Sam. The N1K4-A George is identical to the K2 George, but has increased firepower. By using the same engine for both Army and Navy fighters (as well as a bunch of other aircraft) it will allow me to streamline my engine industry - The Ha-43 will only be used for the end game Shinden aircraft. And TBH I am still looking at the Shinden to see if its worth the cost to research and produce that one aircraft (and engine) when its only advantage over the George and Frank is roughly 50 mph top speed.

If my math is correct, I will have the Ha-45 by mid 42 when I can start stockpiling the engine for the engine bonus. That should allow me to get the N1K4-A George by mid 43. Since nothing upgrades to the Sam, I would be looking at early 44 to get that model.

Not sure if this will be a mistake but we will see I guess. This is also why I am posting this stuff here to let you guys pick my decisions apart.


Xargun

Is that George carrier capable? Is that Sam carrier capable? That might make all of the difference in a naval air battle between carrier forces - especially if you can sink some carriers early on.

Don't necessarily compare the Shinden to the George and the Frank, compare the Shinden to the Allied fighters!

+1

[Mike Solli]

If at all possible, get as much to flow to Fusan where it costs less to ship plus you can mine the Tsushima Strait.

Do I want to put Refineries or Oil production at Fusan to help with the magic highway?

Xargun

Refineries will draw the oil there from other locations, oil production will not draw oil there.

To increase fuel demand there, have a large TF located elsewhere have Fusan as the home port but don't move it there. The farther away the TF is and the more fuel hungry that it is, the more fuel will be drawn there to be hauled to Japan.

I agree with Joe. Put refineries there. I'm having issues in my game getting oil to Fusan. Fuel and resources flow there with no issues, but oil is a pain. Refineries (as many as you can) will do the trick.

By the way, I'm really looking forward to this, Xargun. I've learned a lot from you for a LOT of years.

[Xargun]

Is that George carrier capable? Is that Sam carrier capable? That might make all of the difference in a naval air battle between carrier forces - especially if you can sink some carriers early on.

Don't necessarily compare the Shinden to the George and the Frank, compare the Shinden to the Allied fighters!

Yes, both the George and Sam are CV Capable.

Comparing the N1K4-A George vs F6F-5 Hellcat they are very similiar in stats. The Hellcat has a bit more range (doesn't matter as I'll be defensive by then), 2 pts more durability and those deadly .50 cal MGs in the wings. The George has 5 mph faster Max, 30 mph faster cruise, 350+ better climb rate, 8 pts better in Manueverability, better gun Value, but only has 4x 20mm Forward mounted cannons. Main issue is Hellcat is SR 1 and George is SR 2.

Xargun

[Xargun]

I agree with Joe. Put refineries there. I'm having issues in my game getting oil to Fusan. Fuel and resources flow there with no issues, but oil is a pain. Refineries (as many as you can) will do the trick.

By the way, I'm really looking forward to this, Xargun. I've learned a lot from you for a LOT of years.

Ok. I will alter my purchases to purchase extra Refineries and put them in Fusan. For 1 point I get 50 pts in factories (HI/Shipyard/Armament/Vehicle or Refinery. How many Refineries do you think I need there? Yes, I can break those up however I want.

Xargun

[RangerJoe]

I agree with Joe. Put refineries there. I'm having issues in my game getting oil to Fusan. Fuel and resources flow there with no issues, but oil is a pain. Refineries (as many as you can) will do the trick.

By the way, I'm really looking forward to this, Xargun. I've learned a lot from you for a LOT of years.

Ok. I will alter my purchases to purchase extra Refineries and put them in Fusan. For 1 point I get 50 pts in factories (HI/Shipyard/Armament/Vehicle or Refinery. How many Refineries do you think I need there? Yes, I can break those up however I want.

Xargun

Look up how much oil will be demanded by the refineries with a stockpile. Then decide how much oil that you want to ship to Japan from Fusan. With just 1 refinery point at Fusan, you can also expand it.

As far as expanding Vehicle factories, convert Armament factories. HI will also demand fuel so those could also be placed in Fusan - just make sure that you don't run Fusan out of fuel so the HI will continue to operate. Consider (if this hasn't been mentioned yet) expanding the LI within your game at Fusan which will draw more Resources there. Don't use those 50 points for these. Remember that any factories at Fusan will not give VPs for their destruction.

Depending upon the cost of the HI/Shipyard/Armament/Vehicle or Refinery expansions in any mod, get the most expensive one that you desire free!

[Xargun]

By the way, I'm really looking forward to this, Xargun. I've learned a lot from you for a LOT of years.

I appreciate that. I enjoy solving the economic issues that Japan faces - which is why I only play Japan. Would love a more complex economy system, but we have what we have. You make me sound old Its ok, I am old. Cannot wait for retirement and more time to devote to the important things in life.... like AE

Xargun

[Xargun]

Look up how much oil will be demanded by the refineries with a stockpile. Then decide how much oil that you want to ship to Japan from Fusan. With just 1 refinery point at Fusan, you can also expand it.

Each refinery needs 10 oil per day to refine. I wanted to say it will draw x3 its size in oil, but looking at a few old turns on old games, it looks more like it draws approximately 200 per refinery point - size 40 refinery base has ~8k oil and a 20 size has ~4k oil stockpiled.

As far as expanding Vehicle factories, convert Armament factories. HI will also demand fuel so those could also be placed in Fusan - just make sure that you don't run Fusan out of fuel so the HI will continue to operate. Consider (if this hasn't been mentioned yet) expanding the LI within your game at Fusan which will draw more Resources there. Don't use those 50 points for these. Remember that any factories at Fusan will not give VPs for their destruction.

I like to keep my armament factories so I never run out of base devices. Plus with all the new units I am buying I think I will need the points. I usually increase a few vehicle factories - basically the same reason - I don't like to run out. Plus you can always turn them off if your stockpiled points get to crazy. With advancing the Type 3 Medium Tanks to 12/42 and altering the upgrade path so more tanks will upgrade to the type 3 Tanks, I will need a lot of tanks in late 42 and early 43.

Depending upon the cost of the HI/Shipyard/Armament/Vehicle or Refinery expansions in any mod, get the most expensive one that you desire free!

Expansion costs are the same for all industry - 100 each to expand and then 1000 to repair. Instead of expanding factories I will use the bundle of 50 I will get to expand them some. Thinking maybe a size 10 or 20 Refinery in Fusan, then a size 30 Vehicle factory somewhere in Korea.

Xargun

[Xargun]

I purchased a size 50 Oil resource. I was going to put it in northern Japan, but I wonder if it would serve better in Korea or somewhere in China to help the magic railroad?


Xargun

[RangerJoe]

I purchased a size 50 Oil resource. I was going to put it in northern Japan, but I wonder if it would serve better in Korea or somewhere in China to help the magic railroad?


Xargun

The oil will not help the magic railroad but the industrial sites that demand the oil, fuel, and/or resources will help the magic highway draw those to where there is a demand.

I would put the oil someplace where you don't have manpower to be attacked but where you will heavily defend the base.

[RangerJoe]

Look up how much oil will be demanded by the refineries with a stockpile. Then decide how much oil that you want to ship to Japan from Fusan. With just 1 refinery point at Fusan, you can also expand it.

Each refinery needs 10 oil per day to refine. I wanted to say it will draw x3 its size in oil, but looking at a few old turns on old games, it looks more like it draws approximately 200 per refinery point - size 40 refinery base has ~8k oil and a 20 size has ~4k oil stockpiled.

Once you start pulling out oil in CS convoys, the demand for oil will increase and more oil will flow there.

As far as expanding Vehicle factories, convert Armament factories. HI will also demand fuel so those could also be placed in Fusan - just make sure that you don't run Fusan out of fuel so the HI will continue to operate. Consider (if this hasn't been mentioned yet) expanding the LI within your game at Fusan which will draw more Resources there. Don't use those 50 points for these. Remember that any factories at Fusan will not give VPs for their destruction.

I like to keep my armament factories so I never run out of base devices. Plus with all the new units I am buying I think I will need the points. I usually increase a few vehicle factories - basically the same reason - I don't like to run out. Plus you can always turn them off if your stockpiled points get to crazy. With advancing the Type 3 Medium Tanks to 12/42 and altering the upgrade path so more tanks will upgrade to the type 3 Tanks, I will need a lot of tanks in late 42 and early 43.

That makes sense.

Depending upon the cost of the HI/Shipyard/Armament/Vehicle or Refinery expansions in any mod, get the most expensive one that you desire free!

Expansion costs are the same for all industry - 100 each to expand and then 1000 to repair. Instead of expanding factories I will use the bundle of 50 I will get to expand them some. Thinking maybe a size 10 or 20 Refinery in Fusan, then a size 30 Vehicle factory somewhere in Korea.

Xargun

Some mods do change the cost of the expansions for the industry so verify this first.

Going back to the George and the Hellcat comparison, during the actual war when the Georges were flown with 1st class pilots the Hellcats were chastised. The four 20 mm machine cannons hit a lot harder than the 6 fifty caliber machine guns.

[Xargun]

Some mods do change the cost of the expansions for the industry so verify this first.

Is that in the editor? I don't see anything in there about expansion / repair costs.

Going back to the George and the Hellcat comparison, during the actual war when the Georges were flown with 1st class pilots the Hellcats were chastised. The four 20 mm machine cannons hit a lot harder than the 6 fifty caliber machine guns.

Glad to hear that the 20mm cannons are a good weapon.. I will make sure to keep some good pilots around for those aircraft.

Xargun

[RangerJoe]

Some mods do change the cost of the expansions for the industry so verify this first.

Is that in the editor? I don't see anything in there about expansion / repair costs.

Going back to the George and the Hellcat comparison, during the actual war when the Georges were flown with 1st class pilots the Hellcats were chastised. The four 20 mm machine cannons hit a lot harder than the 6 fifty caliber machine guns.

Glad to hear that the 20mm cannons are a good weapon.. I will make sure to keep some good pilots around for those aircraft.

Xargun

Some mods have changed the value of the industrial costs, I do believe that is done in the Bottlenecks mods and maybe other people have done so. I just thought that I would mention that. If I did a mod, I would lower the cost of the Light Industry since, in my opinion, that is just redirecting and modifying the civilian production system for the military output along with some expansion. An example would be with the canning of food. Instead of paper labels the cans (at least for the US Army) would be painted with green paint and then have the contents painted on top of the green paint. That way there would not be unpainted empty cans shining to show the enemy where the US Army units (or other countries units who used that food) had marched, bivouacked, and/or then set up their defenses.

Yes, cannons are better than machine guns since they tend to penetrate armour so much better! Plus they can have explosives installed and more of the explosives means a bigger bang. Unless . . .

https://fbindependent.com/when-my-daddy ... 053-89.htm

[BBfanboy]

I have heard of the slaves of the Nazis sabotaging their work whenever they could but this is the first time I heard of the desired outcome! Reminds me of the Hogan's Heroes episode where the captives made anti-tank gun barrels that were not fully drilled out and Hogan distracted the inspector so that the barrels continued down the assembly line.
Thanks for sharing RJ!

[PaxMondo]

Some mods do change the cost of the expansions for the industry so verify this first.

Is that in the editor? I don't see anything in there about expansion / repair costs.

Going back to the George and the Hellcat comparison, during the actual war when the Georges were flown with 1st class pilots the Hellcats were chastised. The four 20 mm machine cannons hit a lot harder than the 6 fifty caliber machine guns.
[/quote

Glad to hear that the 20mm cannons are a good weapon.. I will make sure to keep some good pilots around for those aircraft.

Xargun

Some mods have changed the value of the industrial costs, I do believe that is done in the Bottlenecks mods and maybe other people have done so. I just thought that I would mention that. If I did a mod, I would lower the cost of the Light Industry since, in my opinion, that is just redirecting and modifying the civilian production system for the military output along with some expansion. An example would be with the canning of food. Instead of paper labels the cans (at least for the US Army) would be painted with green paint and then have the contents painted on top of the green paint. That way there would not be unpainted empty cans shining to show the enemy where the US Army units (or other countries units who used that food) had marched, bivouacked, and/or then set up their defenses.

Yes, cannons are better than machine guns since they tend to penetrate armour so much better! Plus they can have explosives installed and more of the explosives means a bigger bang. Unless . . .

https://fbindependent.com/when-my-daddy ... 053-89.htm

Going back to the J7W ... those guns are all center-line ... that means they hit roughly 2x as hard ... a BIG deal. And they are also CANNONS. So ....

[RangerJoe]

I have heard of the slaves of the Nazis sabotaging their work whenever they could but this is the first time I heard of the desired outcome! Reminds me of the Hogan's Heroes episode where the captives made anti-tank gun barrels that were not fully drilled out and Hogan distracted the inspector so that the barrels continued down the assembly line.
Thanks for sharing RJ!

You are most welcome!

[RangerJoe]

Is that in the editor? I don't see anything in there about expansion / repair costs.



Some mods have changed the value of the industrial costs, I do believe that is done in the Bottlenecks mods and maybe other people have done so. I just thought that I would mention that. If I did a mod, I would lower the cost of the Light Industry since, in my opinion, that is just redirecting and modifying the civilian production system for the military output along with some expansion. An example would be with the canning of food. Instead of paper labels the cans (at least for the US Army) would be painted with green paint and then have the contents painted on top of the green paint. That way there would not be unpainted empty cans shining to show the enemy where the US Army units (or other countries units who used that food) had marched, bivouacked, and/or then set up their defenses.

Yes, cannons are better than machine guns since they tend to penetrate armour so much better! Plus they can have explosives installed and more of the explosives means a bigger bang. Unless . . .

https://fbindependent.com/when-my-daddy ... 053-89.htm

Going back to the J7W ... those guns are all center-line ... that means they hit roughly 2x as hard ... a BIG deal. And they are also CANNONS. So ....

I think that the cannons don't hit twice as hard but twice as often. The centerline mounts are twice as accurate which is one reason why the P-38 is so effective for an early war American fighter.

[PaxMondo]

I think that the cannons don't hit twice as hard but twice as often. The centerline mounts are twice as accurate which is one reason why the P-38 is so effective for an early war American fighter.

Correct. Thanks for catching that on me.