The Unwanted War - Xargun (J) vs AsuRob (A)

[RangerJoe]

I think that the cannons don't hit twice as hard but twice as often. The centerline mounts are twice as accurate which is one reason why the P-38 is so effective for an early war American fighter.

Correct. Thanks for catching that on me.

You are most welcome.

[Xargun]

Some mods have changed the value of the industrial costs, I do believe that is done in the Bottlenecks mods and maybe other people have done so. I just thought that I would mention that. If I did a mod, I would lower the cost of the Light Industry since, in my opinion, that is just redirecting and modifying the civilian production system for the military output along with some expansion. An example would be with the canning of food. Instead of paper labels the cans (at least for the US Army) would be painted with green paint and then have the contents painted on top of the green paint. That way there would not be unpainted empty cans shining to show the enemy where the US Army units (or other countries units who used that food) had marched, bivouacked, and/or then set up their defenses.

Where in the editor would those changes be? I looked and couldn't find any costs for expansion or repair anywhere so I assumed they were hard coded.

Xargun

[PaxMondo]

Some mods have changed the value of the industrial costs, I do believe that is done in the Bottlenecks mods and maybe other people have done so. I just thought that I would mention that. If I did a mod, I would lower the cost of the Light Industry since, in my opinion, that is just redirecting and modifying the civilian production system for the military output along with some expansion. An example would be with the canning of food. Instead of paper labels the cans (at least for the US Army) would be painted with green paint and then have the contents painted on top of the green paint. That way there would not be unpainted empty cans shining to show the enemy where the US Army units (or other countries units who used that food) had marched, bivouacked, and/or then set up their defenses.

Where in the editor would those changes be? I looked and couldn't find any costs for expansion or repair anywhere so I assumed they were hard coded.

Xargun

Factory build costs are their LC. 0 defaults to 1000 supply/increase.

[Xargun]

Factory build costs are their LC. 0 defaults to 1000 supply/increase.

All of the Load Costs are 0 - so they have not been changed.

Xargun

[PaxMondo]

Factory build costs are their LC. 0 defaults to 1000 supply/increase.

All of the Load Costs are 0 - so they have not been changed.

Xargun

Not surprising. VERY easy to break the game if you "play" with those. Especially a PBEM game. AI game, there is far more latitude given how the AI economy works.

[Xargun]

I am waiting for some last bits of information from Rob about his choices so I can update the database for him then we will move into the verification stage. Then once we've both verified our points, I can finally start turn 1 !!!

So, in my last game against Rob I split KB and hit Manila port and moved KB 2 near Singers and caught force Z and others at sea. So now I am moving into planning mode and trying to determine where to strike with KB. Any suggestions?

Xargun

[BBfanboy]

If you are not going to hit PH, then destroying the British navy is Job 2. Even if you don't plan to take India the incursion will make him reinforce there.

[PaxMondo]

If you are not going to hit PH, then destroying the British navy is Job 2. Even if you don't plan to take India the incursion will make him reinforce there.

Or the USN subs at Manila ... I really hate subs ....

[Xargun]

If you are not going to hit PH, then destroying the British navy is Job 2. Even if you don't plan to take India the incursion will make him reinforce there.

Or the USN subs at Manila ... I really hate subs ....

I also hate subs. And with Rob buying Reliable Torpedoes with some of his variant points, that makes them a greater threat from day one.

Xargun

[Xargun]

If you are not going to hit PH, then destroying the British navy is Job 2. Even if you don't plan to take India the incursion will make him reinforce there.

I like killing Force Z on turn 1 or 2, but even sending half of KB there doesn't guarantee a kill. I like keeping KB closer to home (in the SRA) instead of a week away from anywhere important just to maybe sink some old BBs at Pearl. I will start looking over the maps and my units and see if I can make any surprise moves...

Xargun

[PaxMondo]

If you are not going to hit PH, then destroying the British navy is Job 2. Even if you don't plan to take India the incursion will make him reinforce there.

Or the USN subs at Manila ... I really hate subs ....

I also hate subs. And with Rob buying Reliable Torpedoes with some of his variant points, that makes them a greater threat from day one.

Xargun

Then you have to prioritize Manila ... there's like 30 subs there ... you can't have those SS loose.

[Xargun]

Then you have to prioritize Manila ... there's like 30 subs there ... you can't have those SS loose.

Hmm... I have 6 CVs and 3 CVLs split into 3 magic move TFs. Leaning towards 4 CVs & 2 CVLs hitting Manila and the others trying for Force Z.

Xargun

[Mike Solli]

I recommend grouping the CVs keeping 2 things in mind. First, try to keep each TF <200 planes. Second, keep in mind the speed of the carriers and group them within a knot or two of each other.

Edit: I agree. Go for the subs. They're good from day one. You need to kill as many as possible.

[PaxMondo]

I recommend grouping the CVs keeping 2 things in mind. First, try to keep each TF <200 planes. Second, keep in mind the speed of the carriers and group them within a knot or two of each other.

Edit: I agree. Go for the subs. They're good from day one. You need to kill as many as possible.

+1 to all of Mike's points ... the speed issue is REALLY annoying. Researching how that all happened and it is so MADDENING that they allowed it ... all comes back to the frigging boilers and turbines.

The Akagi/Kaga were originally CA/BC type ships, we all know that.

Akagi was originally completed in 1925 with 3 flight decks and dual fuel (coal/oil) boilers. In the mid-30's, the 3 flight decks were replaced with a single deck and the boilers were replaced with oil only. BUT, they left the operating pressure untouched at 20kg/cm3 (roughly 284 psi). This caused the top speed to drop with work done AND left the engineering space requirement enormous, contributing tremendously to her susceptibility to damage and challenging to both dealing with either flooding or fire. The USN was operating their ships at 565psi, with a superheater bringing the final steam temp to 850F ... at wars end it was 600psi/850F ... the difference is that the lower pressures of the IJN required them to allocate over 20% MORE engineering space as compared to the USN to get the same output power. BTW, this was an Army Junta decision ... they would not approve the funds to upgrade the boilers.

If they had upgraded the boilers, they could have easily standardized on a set of fleet speeds, say 32/15 or something like that. Instead, they were left with a plethora of speeds, that because they did not match meant that they wasted considerable fuel in keeping station as the SLOWEST ship dictated the overall speed. For a navy that was always short of fuel, why not shoot yourself in the foot a couple of times and make it worse?

[Xargun]

I recommend grouping the CVs keeping 2 things in mind. First, try to keep each TF <200 planes. Second, keep in mind the speed of the carriers and group them within a knot or two of each other.

Edit: I agree. Go for the subs. They're good from day one. You need to kill as many as possible.

I have converted all the different carriers to a single class per type (CV, CVL, CVE) to ease all of that speed crap. You think 4 CVs/2 CVLs would be enough to hit Manila? Or should I include more? If I include more, then I cannot send any CVs after Force Z until turn 2.

Xargun

[Xargun]

+1 to all of Mike's points ... the speed issue is REALLY annoying. Researching how that all happened and it is so MADDENING that they allowed it ... all comes back to the frigging boilers and turbines.

The Akagi/Kaga were originally CA/BC type ships, we all know that.

Akagi was originally completed in 1925 with 3 flight decks and dual fuel (coal/oil) boilers. In the mid-30's, the 3 flight decks were replaced with a single deck and the boilers were replaced with oil only. BUT, they left the operating pressure untouched at 20kg/cm3 (roughly 284 psi). This caused the top speed to drop with work done AND left the engineering space requirement enormous, contributing tremendously to her susceptibility to damage and challenging to both dealing with either flooding or fire. The USN was operating their ships at 565psi, with a superheater bringing the final steam temp to 850F ... at wars end it was 600psi/850F ... the difference is that the lower pressures of the IJN required them to allocate over 20% MORE engineering space as compared to the USN to get the same output power. BTW, this was an Army Junta decision ... they would not approve the funds to upgrade the boilers.

If they had upgraded the boilers, they could have easily standardized on a set of fleet speeds, say 32/15 or something like that. Instead, they were left with a plethora of speeds, that because they did not match meant that they wasted considerable fuel in keeping station as the SLOWEST ship dictated the overall speed. For a navy that was always short of fuel, why not shoot yourself in the foot a couple of times and make it worse?

Did not know that - thanks for the info. No surprise really with the rivalry between the Army and Navy back then.

Xargun

[BBfanboy]

I recommend grouping the CVs keeping 2 things in mind. First, try to keep each TF <200 planes. Second, keep in mind the speed of the carriers and group them within a knot or two of each other.

Edit: I agree. Go for the subs. They're good from day one. You need to kill as many as possible.

I have converted all the different carriers to a single class per type (CV, CVL, CVE) to ease all of that speed crap. You think 4 CVs/2 CVLs would be enough to hit Manila? Or should I include more? If I include more, then I cannot send any CVs after Force Z until turn 2.

Xargun

You can use LBA on port strike at the same time. Not all of it needs to hit Clark Field.

[Xargun]

You can use LBA on port strike at the same time. Not all of it needs to hit Clark Field.

Oh I know.. Lots of bombers within range of Manila. Just need to figure out what mix I want. Gotta hit the airfield there at least once to get the 'bunched aircraft' bonus for turn 1. I remember a lot of P-40s in Luzon.

Xargun

[RangerJoe]

You can use LBA on port strike at the same time. Not all of it needs to hit Clark Field.

Oh I know.. Lots of bombers within range of Manila. Just need to figure out what mix I want. Gotta hit the airfield there at least once to get the 'bunched aircraft' bonus for turn 1. I remember a lot of P-40s in Luzon.

Xargun

The torpedo bombers (Bettys and Nells) flying with the torpedo selected as the main weapon but using bombs are very effective at 1,000 feet since they will use the full load of bombs. The port strike will not use torpedoes. The Sallys are best at 2,000 feet so their bomb load doesn't suffer. Zeros at 9,000 feet with bombs to annoy the airfield, these will drop bombs if they are attacked. These can also be used at Rangoon and Georgetown . . .

A paradrop at Vigan can capture an airfield and then air support can be flown in. Night bombing with Idas can cost the enemy lots of supplies . . .

If you send part of the KB by Singkawan (sp!?) at the corner of Borneo, you can have an invasion there and capture an airfield. Fast Transport TFs will drop their loads and then become Surface Combat Task Forces. Plus those could attack Force Z if it decides to flee to Bavaria.

Part of the KB could also be used east of Borneo to go after the AD, CLs, and DDs there. Kates with bombs at 1,000 or 2,000 feet can be quite vicious against ships with insufficient AA. Of course, Jakes at 1,000 feet with bombs can also be useful against DDs and smaller with insufficient AA weaponry.

[Xargun]

A paradrop at Vigan can capture an airfield and then air support can be flown in. Night bombing with Idas can cost the enemy lots of supplies . . .

Trust me, I use all the paratroopers I can on turn 1 Saves a lot of disablements if you take the base via paratroopers on turn 1 and then unload on turn 2. I also try to use paratroopers to take lightly defended bases with air groups in an attempt to wipe out the air group instantly.

Xargun