Al Kibar strike 2007 (for testing)

[Knightpawn]

Is there a scenario about Israel's strike of Al Kibar site in Syria back in 2007? If not, I am considering taking upon the task.

[Nikel]

Could not find any, so…

[Blast33]

Nice idea. When everything of the Syrian air defense was still standing...

[Mark352]

Is there a scenario about Israel's strike of Al Kibar site in Syria back in 2007? If not, I am considering taking upon the task.

I have played around with that mission, but never really created a finished scenario. Here is a custom layer for the Al Kibar site I had filed away, pre-strike from Aug 2007, that you might want to use. Good luck.

[Knightpawn]

Much appreciated. Thanks a lot

[Mark352]

Much appreciated. Thanks a lot

You're welcome. Cheers

[Knightpawn]

See an early version of the scenario for your (ruthless) testing, comments and suggestions.
I am looking forward in particular to Blast33's input for Syrian Air Defenses to compare with my research (delegated to Claude for the most part).
Many thanks to Mark352 for the imagery above.

I have inserted a diplomatic twist with Turkey. I hope you like it.

Al_Kibar_measured_Aug2007.png (3.24 MiB) Viewed 1067 times

[Nikel]

Only for steamers

[Knightpawn]

Only for steamers

How do I correct that?

[Nikel]

It is the db, you selected v518, that only can be used with build 1900.8 and the ones that will be released after it. This always happens.

When I want to test a scenario in an old db I do the following. In the editor and with the scenario loaded.

Editor..DB...Load other DB file.

Confirmation message...OK

Then browse, in this case, to the previous DB3K_517.db3...Open

File...Save as...Operation Orchard (2007) V_0.1 v517.scen


Of course, the fixes and new units included in db v518 are gone.


If not I will wait until the next patch is available here

[Knightpawn]

If not I will wait until the next patch is available here

Here you go. Try this

[Nikel]

Thank you!


Operation Orchard v0.2 tested on B1892.


Triumph with 300 points.



SPOILERS ALERT.



First a short AAR, in case you want to make changes to avoid this gameplay.

After some trial and error with the missions, I switched to a Patrol over the target zone with the reactor as the only target in the Targeting priority tab. This way you remove the loops of the strike missions to save fuel. Despite of this, the F-16s still asked for refueling, so tried with only the F-15s and it worked. The F-16s with Mavericks were not used either.

Besides, a refuel, Intel and OECM mission was set in the Mediterranean between Syria, Cyprus and Turkey; and a OECM and intel mission in the Golan.

I did not followed the historical route, but a direct one across Syria from the Golan with the F-15s, they are not attacked in the transit to the reactor. When it suffers enough damage and they try to RTB, the mission is cancelled. The return (afterburner speed) is done manually via the Turkish border to the Mediterranean, to avoid Syrian SAMs and ACs that were already active. Turkish ACs fired but did not hit. This way they reach the refueling mission. And then, ordered a RTB for all of them.

There was some pursuit, but all managed to land safely


Comments, problems and suggestions:

- Description and briefing are very interesting and detailed, and look gorgeous They can only be improved by adding some pics, specially of the site.

- You disregard secondary sources, including this Israeli author?



-

- When you do not execute the special action, a special message is displayed, this is poor looking compared to the description/briefing, can it be improved?

- There is a civilian side with no units.

- Turkey EW unit in Cyprus is moving.

- There are not repeatable events that should be, at least the Israeli and Turkish shot down ACs.

- RP-898 visible when you load the scenario.

- Hide to the player the NNZs RPs and lock the zones.

- A lot of CTDs unfortunately in B1892, are they solved in the last build?

- MiGs losses due to out of Comms and fuel, I think, reported in this thread. No points for this.

https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 8#p5287408


- The MiGs may enter Israeli or Lebanese Air space in the pursuit, I suppose this should not happen? The Mediterranean is OK of course.

- You cite an Orbat SA that is missing.

- Add message on the screen when 75% damage on the Nuclear site is reached, right now I have to look to the scoring window after the bombing.

- This message in one of the reloadings.

ETS.png (9.16 KiB) Viewed 981 times

AS OF: 05-Sep-07 21:29:17

SIDE: Israel
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
8x GBU-31(V)3/B JDAM [BLU-109/B]
1x Generic Chaff Salvo [5x Cartridges]



SIDE: Syria
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
4x MiG-23ML Flogger G
1x Underground Hardened Bunker


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
2x SA-5c Gammon [5V28M5]



SIDE: Civilian
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------



SIDE: Turkey
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
2x AIM-120B AMRAAM

[Knightpawn]

Thanks for this. Much appreciated. I have some work to do

I had no idea about the book at all. I basically used wikipedia as basis and I had claude to search the internet (it took longer than you can imagine) so that I could reconstruct the placements of the Syrian radars and SAMs back in 2007 and also to compare narratives about the operation.

I guess you did not play with the Special Action. It is quite fun because most of the time works as Isreal hopes but occasionally you are backstabbed.

[Nikel]

A lot of work, I imagine, thanks for the effort

I did not execute the SA, cannot imagine Israel informing Turkey of anything, not even in that time, and even less of an operation like this.

Their relations right now are much worse.

[Nikel]

OK, I retried the scenario using the same tactics, and the 8 glide bombs of the F-15s may not be enough, 72,9% of damage in the reactor

In the previous test, it was completely destroyed, 100%.

[Knightpawn]

Release Candidate (v_03_DB 517)

- Implemented most suggestions of Nikel (thanks)
- Syrian ADs are more aggressive against intrusion of Syrian Airspace (Golan Heights paths should not be a prudent choice now)
- Added a couple Israeli SAMs to cover against Syrian interceptors in pursuit
- Updated the scoring system so that Triumph requires the destruction of ancillary facilities as well

PS: I personally still struggle with a successful egress

[Nikel]

Thanks for the new version

After some trial and error, it still can be done and get a triumph with the changes you introduced.

Operation Orchard v0.3 tested on B1892.



SPOILERS ALERT




Short AAR of the perfect result:

The Intel and OECM mission in the Golan has to be moved to the South, still in N Israel, or it will be attacked. The refueling, intel and OECM mission in the Mediterranean is the same. Patrol for the bombers is changed, just adjacent to the refueling, is of course a fake patrol

When all are in position, the bombers are ordered to refuel automatically, all the tankers are available near to avoid problems. After refueling, the fake patrol is canceled and the infiltration, bombing and run away is managed manually. First, refuel is cancelled and Weapon state RTB set to no. The infiltration route is between Turkey and Syria, in the process the Turkish fighters are launched and will intercept the Israeli bombers, they will be recognized as neutral and will not attack. The targets are bombed, 9 gliding bombs for the reactor to assure the 75% of destruction, the remaining for the other 3 targets. Arizona! message appears on the screen. The run away is the same route and it is were more variability happens. Syrian MiGs may intercept you or not, there is randomness due to the effect of the OECM.

When the bombers reach the refueling zone, refuel doctrine is restored and they are ordered to do it. Then all of them RTB. Patriots not used, no MiGs over Israel this time.



Problems:

- This lua error is printed many times, I think related with v0.3, not v0.2, but not sure.

Exception: [string "CachedChunk"]:1: attempt to call a nil value (global 'ReplenishAll')
Stack Trace: at NLua.Lua.ThrowExceptionFromError(Int32 oldTop)
at NLua.Lua.CallFunction(Object function, Object[] args, Type[] returnTypes)
at NLua.LuaFunction.Call(Object[] args)
at sti7w5Qwn5BsWqaadWN3.Cvw11DVDImG(Object , Object[] , sti7w5Qwn5BsWqaadWN3 )
at Command_Core.LuaUtility.DoString_Optimized(Lua lua, String chunk, String chunkName)
at Command_Core.Lua.LuaSandBox.RunScript(String str, Boolean RunInteractively, String script, String fullPath)

- Should be allowed that the Syrian side attack the Turkish F-16s?

5-Sep-07 21:44:17 - SA-3b Goa [5V27, V-601P] #2331 HIT: Weapon: SA-3b Goa [5V27, V-601P] #2331 is attacking Filo 182 #11 (F-16DG Blk 40 Falcon [Peace Onyx I]) with a base PH of 40%. Intercept angle 56 deg, tgt 480 kts, intc 1928 kts. LOS rate 0.65 deg/s. AgilityScore 6, CrossingMod 1, KinMod 0.96. PH reduced by 4%.Final PH: 38% Result: 34 - HIT.

05-Sep-07 21:51:14 - AA-8 Aphid [R-60M] #2341 HIT: Weapon: AA-8 Aphid [R-60M] #2341 is attacking Filo 182 #9 (F-16DG Blk 40 Falcon [Peace Onyx I]) with a base PH of 80%. Intercept angle 27 deg, tgt 582 kts, intc 1034 kts. LOS rate 2.8 deg/s. AgilityScore 11, CrossingMod 0.99, KinMod 0.95. PH reduced by 6%.Final PH: 75% Result: 33 - HIT.

The worse part is of course that the Israeli side get the -200 points per Turkish AC shot down, when it was not you, this should not happen.


- Also may happen that the Turkish side becomes red when you are returning, not sure why.

- The MiGs losses had the same cause, out of comms and fuel, no points given or lost.


- SL of the perfect play.

09-05-2007 20:56: Score changed from 0 to 15. Reason: Event Action: 'Israel +15 pts' has been fired (part of Event: 'Substation Destroyed (+15)')

09-05-2007 20:56: Score changed from 15 to 20. Reason: Event Action: 'Israel +5 pts' has been fired (part of Event: 'Guard Post Destroyed (+5)')

09-05-2007 20:57: Score changed from 20 to 100. Reason: Event Action: 'Israel +80 pts' has been fired (part of Event: 'Water Pump Destroyed (+80)')

09-05-2007 21:06: Score changed from 100 to 300. Reason: Event Action: 'Israel +200 pts' has been fired (part of Event: 'Reactor Heavily Damaged (+200)')

AS OF: 05-Sep-07 22:18:41

SIDE: Israel
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
1x AGM-65D Maverick IR
16x GBU-31(V)3/B JDAM [BLU-109/B]



SIDE: Syria
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x Building (Electric Sub Station)
1x Building (Guard Post)
1x Building (Pump House)
7x MiG-23ML Flogger G


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
4x AA-7 Apex C [R-24R, SARH]
9x SA-14 Gremlin [9M36]



SIDE: Turkey
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------

[Knightpawn]

Tanks for this. I through that the NFZ imposed on Turkey will prevent them from entering Syria. I will tweak the Syria exclusion zone so that they still treat Turkey as neutrals to avoid -200 not causes by the player.

Very useful feedback

[Nikel]

OK. Forgot to mention that the message log is not clean when you load v0.3

One question. Do you think that the Mavericks, unable to attack the reactor is a bug? It is autodetectable, so why do they need to detect prior the target? Because it is underground not like the rest?

M.gif (272.12 KiB) Viewed 823 times

[Knightpawn]

(as per the briefing) the two weasels with the Mavericks are specifically to kill the radar at the boarder with Turkey north west of the target. There are some accounts that it had been targeted by IAF. The prevailing narrative (at least based on my research) is that the strike elements consisted of eight aircrafts. So one can leave the 2 weasels at base.

You need penetrators for the reactor