Some thoughts on the Game as i see it

[Przemcio251]

With another game running into 1937 against Brad I decided to write something on how I see
the current state of the game. Till this point I played 3 Campaign games using the stock campaign scenario and now we are testing a new version of naval rules so I will make references to which version of the campaign my references are made.

So let’s start with something simple like… Air War… which also touches the subject of severe shortage of engineering capacity. As the game stands now when you start the campaign game the only ones having any planes are Republicans. Yes their planes are obsolete and there are not so many of them but there is a problem… main Nationalist embarkation point (for the air bridge) is Sania Ramiel in North Africa… which can be reached by Republican planes from day 1… giving the lack of any air defense and lack of eng capacity the airfield can be quickly put out of commission severely restricting the speed of the air bridge.

Later on when both sides start to receive reinforcements the odds shift in nationalist favor… even before modern German planes show up. In my current game Brad is able to eliminate most of my bombers by just hitting one base at a time with his planes… no matter my CAP those bombers still go through and damage the base and planes in the base. Since there is a shortage of eng capability it takes ages to repair the airfields. I even had a few instances where Ju-52’s went in unescorted against my CAP of Chatos and Moscas and still were able to damage my airfield and I didn’t claim a single kill.

Low replacement rates for SB-2 bomber mean that after 2 such airfield attacks there is not much left out of Republican Air force.

Also from what I read I-15’s and I-16’s were superior to early German planes sent to Spain and especially I-16 was better than the Fiat CR.32 but I can’t see that in the game… Republican groups with exp in their 60’s and 70’s don’t get kills against Nationalist fighters no matter sweeping or defending a base… I wonder what will happen when BF-109’s and modern German Bombers show up…

Also in the campaign I currently playtesting the Republicans are deprived of Torpedo ordnance which is an error I think… as the Republic air force without Torpedoes totally lack any anti-ship capability.

What I really like about the new version of the campaign is that the Soviet/German and most of Italian air groups arrive in their respective nation bases not directly in Spain which gives some flexibility for the Republicans where to send their new air groups… as in Stock campaign the Chato group that arrive in Bilbao is a goner as there is no way to evacuate it. And it just die while being bombed in either Bilbao or Lamiaco.

Now on to naval warfare… in my opinion some things clearly don’t work or are to strong… the difference between stock and the new naval rules is that German/Italian surface ships are neutral so no more Italian/German bombardments but on the other hand Republic can’t attack any of those nation ships. Italian subs are treated as pirate so they can attack Republic/USSR ships.

In both versions of the campaign ASW seem a bit overpowered, Republican destroyers are quite efficient in hunting Italian subs, on the other hand mine warfare is also quite strong. From what I understand only Nationalists can lay mines which strong in dealing with Republican subs as they tend to run on the mines every time when they enter a hex with Nationalist base… solution would be allowing mines a chance to damage nationalist ships to (a small chance) which will force the nationalists to use mines more conservatively.

Costal Guns are also really imo to strong especially those in strait of Gibraltar one hit is usually enough to sink a republican ship and they do hit quite often.

In stock campaign where Italian/German ships can bombard republican bases the Republic can forget about using airfields in the Norther Spain as they can quickly be put out of commission by German Pocket Battleships but on the other hand Western Med is no go zone for Italian and Nationalist ships due to Vildebeest bombers armed with Torpedoes when they are based out of Mallorca. But this is not such a big problem since Italian troops can be transported to Spain around Africa… it’s slower but safe.

On the other hand in the version I’m testing Italian and German ships being neutral means no bombing of Republican bases but in that version there is no way Republicans can capture Palma as Italian ships can transport in supply without a way to counter that, and when the Italian troops show up they can land on Mallorca without any means of interrupting it by the Republic. Also I wonder if Italians can amphibious assault… if they can…

When I tried some Surface actions (in hot seat mode) meaning Nationalist CA’s vs Republican fleet the Republicans get decimated most of the time with low to medium damage to Nationalist ships. After republican fleet is destroyed the Nationalists can just bomb republican bases (as republican CD guns are worthless) and cut Republic from any outside supply and fuel shipments in the version of the scenario we are testing as Republic air force has zero anti surface capability.

Now time for the land war… I don’t know what happened with the scenario we are testing but something is quite off if it comes to supply I already posted on the forum a while ago about Nat CD gun unit in Africa that doesn’t receive any supply no matter what I try… no such problem in stock campaign as I double checked that. Also in the campaign we are testing units tend to run out of supply if they move to a hex next to road… which can be frustrating, no such thing at least to such a big extent happen in stock campaign.

Other important thing is Republic del Norte… no matter stock or the campaign I’m testing Republicans get over run every time. There is no way to protect Santander or Asturias (except Gijon). The only place which can be defended is the Iron Ring. In every game I played, and I played quite a few the area gets overrun by nationalists in the first month of the game with nothing to stop it… And there is no need for the nationalists to send in extra troops to achieve it. In the game where I played nationalists the only reinforcements I sent north were 2 African battalions and everything except Gijon and Iron Ring got over run. There is also another side of it… In my current game I made a blunder leaving one base of the Iron Ring empty and Brad over run it leaving me with Bilbao and Lamiaco which was besieged… but with gradual arrival of republican units I was able to turn Lamiaco into a killing ground for the Nationalists and I gradually wore them down and forced them to retreat… The same is with Gijon which can’t be captured quickly and units there gradually build up allowing a break out.

I found that sometimes when you order units to travel longer distances the chosen path leaving units stranded by lack of supply.

But overall the land combat is really good… Nationalists can concentrate for a push and are then quite effective but on the other hand if Republicans can shuffle the reserves they are able to blunt nationalist’s advances and by using flanking attacks force them back a bit.

[RangerJoe]

Some of that depends upon your settings and how you play the game.

[WingedIncubus]

To be honest, some of the items above can be (and should be) covered by mutually-agreed house rules in PBEM - Like agreeing not to use the German/Italian surface navy aggressively, and restricting its use on defensive missions only.

If the German/Italian ships are forced to be neutral, then what is their use? That seems to punish the Nationalists too much as the Republican Navy was indeed afraid to go toe-to-toe with German and Italian heavy cruisers and risk alienating Hitler and Mussolini, allowing them both to screen the seas around the straits of Gibraltar for the Nationalists destroyers to ferry troops to the mainland. Those ships would have opened fire if the Republican navy had attempted to breech that screen. That didn't mean the Axis ships went actively on the hunt for Republican ships, doing so would have been prima facie Germany and Italy directly intervening as co-belligerents, and this would have provoked an international escalation of the conflict.

Same for the Republican Army - Passed May 1937, no POUM unit should be in the same OOB as PSE/PSUC units, or FAI/CNT with government squads or any communist units. They'd readily open fire on one another as much as on the Nationalists, and the POUM and the Anarchists were actively purged (as in their leaders arrested, tortured, and murdered, and their units dissolved) by the NKVD-controlled SIM after Juan Negrin took effective control of the government. Meanwhile, the Basques and Catalunyans had very little interest in going to fight outside their respective regions.

Those "features" of the Spanish Civil War are not currently restricted in the game, so the Republican player can just mix and match them as if they were in total union and harmony with one another. This could be covered by a set of house rules agreed upon by both players, like for example:

a) Starting from May 1, 1937, the Republican Player has to detach from its OOBs all Anarchists, POUM, and PSE/PSUC LCUs from their Regiment HQs if they do not match the other LCUs.
b) From that date, the Republican Player can no longer mix units or devices of different political affiliations.
c) Units have to be shuffled around and units rebuilt uniformily together (POUM units only with POUM, PSE/PSUC units together, FAI/CNT together, and so on).
d) Same with their device squads; they have to be upgraded (or downgraded) to only one type of infantry squads compatible with their units.
e) They cannot be in the same hex together, except in defence. If they are in the same hex, they have to remain detached from one another.

Is it a lot of work? Yes, but it's historical and represents the hardcore reorganization of command for the Republican side when the communists took over. We have their nomenclatures in the manual, we know how to recognize which unit belongs historically to what organization, and the Nationalist player can flag in good faith if incompatible units still appear. It can be compensated by the Nationalists having some sort of restrictions for a month, to give the opponent time to set themselves back up and not unduly exploit the chaos.

In WITP:AE there are plenty of house rules to account that it is possible for the player to do things in the game that would never have been possible in history, or at least exceedingly hard to perform and coordinate. The game cannot account for how inexperienced and amateurish some armed branches of sides of the Civil War were at the beginning of the conflict; or how fragmented both sides of the war were (especially on the Republican side); or the nuances of covertly intervening into the war while maintaining an official posture of non-intervention; or that both players know in hindsight how key ferrying troops out of Africa is for the Nationalists to have a fighting chance, when the Republican government did not have the command and control and the resources to coordinate countering that ferrying because of how divided Republican factions were, they'd have told them Madrid off or refused to obey unless approved by their local military committees. The game just applies programming rules, data, and numbers presuming perfect conditions set by those rules - units always obey instructions, never fight one another, never push back - and that constitutes a non-negligable boost early on for the Republican player.

But as the volume of PBEM players is nowhere near the popularity level of WITP:AE, a set of widely-agreed house rules has never emerged, let alone reached the level of being standard conventions. So yes, right now it's a free-for-all, and some features might be indeed unbalanced or even overpowered, if left unrestrained.

[Piteas]

In the game, all the militias are reorganized into People's Army LCUs during the summer months of 1937. So no more POUM or PSE/PSUC LCUs. Only the People's Army... ...except for a few communist catalan batallions, who went their own way... as ever.

[WingedIncubus]

In the game, all the militias are reorganized into People's Army LCUs during the summer months of 1937. So no more POUM or PSE/PSUC LCUs. Only the People's Army... ...except for a few communist catalan batallions, who went their own way... as ever.

Well then that solves that.

Is it just a renaming thing or it has other changes in TOE and XP/Morale?

[Piteas]

In the game, all the militias are reorganized into People's Army LCUs during the summer months of 1937. So no more POUM or PSE/PSUC LCUs. Only the People's Army... ...except for a few communist catalan batallions, who went their own way... as ever.

Well then that solves that.

Is it just a renaming thing or it has other changes in TOE and XP/Morale?

There´re minor changes in TOEs