Quick Questions Thread

[thek3mu]

good to know ...

ksnip_20261014-211453.png (282.74 KiB) Viewed 273 times

found here: https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 8#p3603378 (yes, it's from WitW but should hold true ...)

[Wiedrock]

RECON Air Directives Settings, when switching Strategic to YES i see some zeros (0) in parenthesis - who knows what these mean?

in this example the target hex is Minsk and the larger area to recon is 5(6) - when i point the recon area somewhere else i get different numbers ...

are these numbers related to already available recon data on industry in my target area? and why the parenthesis?
searching for answers ... (should i care? )

thanks in advance!


parenthesis.png

edit: i guess, i will find my answers inside the WitW manual ... something to do for tomorrow.

It's the damaged factories out of the number before paranthesis.

[Wiedrock]

Ahh you've found already. Got it.

Two things....
1. Remember that in WitW you've got points for Strat Bombing afaik (which you won't get in WitE2).

2. Be aware that Strat Recon is suposed to give you better intel on the damage.
But what I can say is that this is not always the case (I did not do statistics).
Like, you can actually have 17% → 25(4) damage which you can see with FoW OFF.
When FoW ON this may be shown as 20% damage.
Then you run a week of Strat Recon on the city and you end with 9% damage shown (while it is still 17%). So be aware that whatever you do does not make any sense anyways since the more intel you get the worse the information may become.

[thek3mu]

RECON Air Directives Settings, when switching Strategic to YES i see some zeros (0) in parenthesis - who knows what these mean?

in this example the target hex is Minsk and the larger area to recon is 5(6) - when i point the recon area somewhere else i get different numbers ...

are these numbers related to already available recon data on industry in my target area? and why the parenthesis?
searching for answers ... (should i care? )

thanks in advance!


parenthesis.png

edit: i guess, i will find my answers inside the WitW manual ... something to do for tomorrow.

It's the damaged factories out of the number before paranthesis.

thank you!

[thek3mu]

Ahh you've found already. Got it.

Two things....
1. Remember that in WitW you've got points for Strat Bombing afaik (which you won't get in WitE2).

2. Be aware that Strat Recon is suposed to give you better intel on the damage.
But what I can say is that this is not always the case (I did not do statistics).
Like, you can actually have 17% → 25(4) damage which you can see with FoW OFF.
When FoW ON this may be shown as 20% damage.
Then you run a week of Strat Recon on the city and you end with 9% damage shown (while it is still 17%). So be aware that whatever you do does not make any sense anyways since the more intel you get the worse the information may become.

yes, thanks a lot! hey, i'm into the old USAF Hist Studies books on the Luftwaffe and right now i'm reading the 'German Air Force Operations in support of the army' ... lots to LARP, wouldn't you agree?!

[Wiedrock]

Ahh you've found already. Got it.

Two things....
1. Remember that in WitW you've got points for Strat Bombing afaik (which you won't get in WitE2).

2. Be aware that Strat Recon is suposed to give you better intel on the damage.
But what I can say is that this is not always the case (I did not do statistics).
Like, you can actually have 17% → 25(4) damage which you can see with FoW OFF.
When FoW ON this may be shown as 20% damage.
Then you run a week of Strat Recon on the city and you end with 9% damage shown (while it is still 17%). So be aware that whatever you do does not make any sense anyways since the more intel you get the worse the information may become.

yes, thanks a lot! hey, i'm into the old USAF Hist Studies books on the Luftwaffe and right now i'm reading the 'German Air Force Operations in support of the army' ... lots to LARP, wouldn't you agree?!

I have a version of this from 1999 or so. But not read.

On the Air War in the East I can suggest 'War Over the Steppes' by Hooton.

[Walkyre]

Is there any way to prevent friendly HQs from being displaced when isolated enemy divisions are destroyed inside a pocket?

The enemy divisions are correctly destroyed and removed from the map. However, during the process, they appear to "fly" out of the pocket, and if their displacement path crosses a friendly HQ outside the pocket, that HQ gets displaced as well.

The problem is not that the isolated divisions survive or escape the pocket, but that their removal from the map can trigger the displacement of friendly HQs.
This just happened to one of my FBD units operating near a pocket. When an isolated Soviet division was destroyed, its removal from the map displaced my FBD, preventing it from carrying out any railway repairs for an entire turn.

This is more than just an annoyance, as it can seriously disrupt railway repair schedules and logistics during the 1941 offensive.

Is this intended behavior, a known bug, or is there any way to prevent it?

[thek3mu]

[...]

On the Air War in the East I can suggest 'War Over the Steppes' by Hooton.

found this review on Good Reads:

[...] Never encountered any historian complicating a text as Hooton done, the established abbreviations has he dismissed and instead introduced firstly abbreviations emanated from complicated Russian terms, eg. VVS (Voyenno Vozdushnye Sily) for Red Army Air Force and secondly applied a method with scaling down the Air Force in the various different naming of the functions within the VVS (Red Army Airforce) and used the abbreviations established from other long and complicated Russian definitions.
I must repeatedly check the glossary. [...]

LOL, that's a book for me then, thanks for the tip. since finishing Stalin's War (Sean McMeekin) i'm eager to play the soviet side as well - always wondered how i'll get into a russian mood and hey, Gary is using the same abbreviations everywhere in his magnum opus ... that's 288 Pages? nice, thank you!

[Tcao]

For the luftwaffe the first turn should use 50kg small bombs to maxium the damage on Soviets airfield. How about the future turns? Should I change to 250kg or 500kg bombs to deal with fortification?

[thek3mu]

For the luftwaffe the first turn should use 50kg small bombs to maxium the damage on Soviets airfield. How about the future turns? Should I change to 250kg or 500kg bombs to deal with fortification?

see '18.2. Aircraft Loadouts' and '19.4.5. Air Mission Type and Weapon System' in the living manual. FWIW, i'd use the (heavy dudes for fortification)=doesn't work, see next post (but man, it just feels right to give them forts like brest the heavy hitters!!! - i'll just use 'em for flavor then...) and lots of small ones for units ... but i'm still learning. also, Wiedrock did some tests, see here: https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 4#p5126774 - i'm sure there's more but hey, what do i know?! when you search the forum for 'loadout bombs' you'll find some discussions about different strategies but in the end it comes down to flavor more than effect, i guess ... AFAIR, there was a thread about missing loadout options and the answer went like 'there wasn't enough space (coding-wise?)' and what you see is what you got (sry, can't find that thread/post ...)

hey, good luck!

here's a snippet from 'German Air Force Operations in Support of the Army' about Fragmentation bombs:

[...] It is astonishing that the German command failed to realize the importance of very small bombs, to be scattered in very large numbers on targets. In the 1940 campaign in France the Luftwaffe had captured over one million of these 2. 2-pound (1 kilogram) bombs to be delivered on targets in large drop containers. A special detonator caused the containers to open at a certain altitude above the ground and scattered the small bombs in a fairly regular pattern in the terrain. The bombs captured in France could have been used without any difficulty with the German bomb containers used for electron incendiary bombs, which were available in adequate quantities and which fitted into the German bomb clips. Without consulting the field forces, the Luftwaffe General Staff released the captured bombs for use as scrap material, the idea being to salvage the small quantities of copper used in the detonators, since copper supplies were so very short in Germany. Too late, the importance of these bombs for use against live and dug-in targets was realized, and only then did production begin in Germany. [...]

read and learn, not only game-devs leave out the good stuff! ... copper, man! copper! lucky WitE2's industry and production is on rails - so we don't have to worry 'bout any COPPER! LOL!

ah, and yes ... i'm talking about Ground Support (GS) - starting to love micro-managing the whole air GS thing. feels very good to know that KG's and JG from II Fliegerkorps are the only planes supporting 2nd PzGr and 4th Army and not some lost pilots from over AGC, yk ...

always good to know - who should help who.

Command Relationships Air to Ground Support.png (423.09 KiB) Viewed 88 times

[Wiedrock]

For the luftwaffe the first turn should use 50kg small bombs to maxium the damage on Soviets airfield.

To damage/destroy the most planes on ground you use many small bombs over few heavy ones, yes.

How about the future turns? Should I change to 250kg or 500kg bombs to deal with fortification?

You can not destroy fortifications with aerial bombs (if that is what you are implying).

It also depends what you are asking about...is it missions performed during Air Phase (if yes, then which) or is it Ground Support (if yes then is it offense or defense). And what type of planes are you looking at, TacB or LB? What Altitude are you flying at?
There is no simple answer to anything.

If it is about GS I can add a short test series (nothing too reliable) I did, see attachment.
It's Ju 88A (LB), no enemy Fighters. AA present but the ~0-5 planes shot down before mission are not being accounted for.
It's attack.
It compares Fort 0 and Fort 3 in 3 different Hexes so with 3 different mixes of Units/Elements on ground.
Loadouts tested are 28x50kg and the 2x250+2x500kg+Fuel.
Mission distance is very short ~80 miles.
Altitude was not changed, so 9k.
Each Hex/Setup combat was only performed 2 times (would need like 10-20 to make it serious as you will see with the heavy loadout results).

Note:
Using Air you always have to balance its effects with the Supplies it consumes (especially early on/in 1941).
TacB have short range (so consume supply near your troops) but are way better than LBs in offensive GS.
LB have long range and in Defensive GS LBs are fine.

Wiedrock did some tests, see here: https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 4#p5126774 -

This is ancient, this was only about showing that some values were bugged/wrongfully used/not used.

here's a snippet from 'German Air Force Operations in Support of the Army' about Fragmentation bombs:

[...] It is astonishing that the German command failed to realize the importance of very small bombs, to be scattered in very large numbers on targets. In the 1940 campaign in France the Luftwaffe had captured over one million of these 2. 2-pound (1 kilogram) bombs to be delivered on targets in large drop containers. A special detonator caused the containers to open at a certain altitude above the ground and scattered the small bombs in a fairly regular pattern in the terrain. The bombs captured in France could have been used without any difficulty with the German bomb containers used for electron incendiary bombs, which were available in adequate quantities and which fitted into the German bomb clips. Without consulting the field forces, the Luftwaffe General Staff released the captured bombs for use as scrap material, the idea being to salvage the small quantities of copper used in the detonators, since copper supplies were so very short in Germany. Too late, the importance of these bombs for use against live and dug-in targets was realized, and only then did production begin in Germany. [...]

read and learn, not only game-devs leave out the good stuff! ... copper, man! copper! lucky WitE2's industry and production is on rails - so we don't have to worry 'bout any COPPER! LOL!

During Barb they at least/already/still used SD-2 bombs in containers which they were researching from even before Poland.
But I read during the initial Phase of Barb they had an issue that some small bombs (not sure anymore if it were the SD-2s or others) ended up stuck in the bomb bay's doors and when landing they sometimes exploded, since they lost several bombers due to this they changed the handling/dropping procedure,....can't remember where I read about it so can't quote properly.

[thek3mu]

@Wiedrock - thanks for your tests!

[thek3mu]

[...]
During Barb they at least/already/still used SD-2 bombs in containers which they were researching from even before Poland.
But I read during the initial Phase of Barb they had an issue that some small bombs (not sure anymore if it were the SD-2s or others) ended up stuck in the bomb bay's doors and when landing they sometimes exploded, since they lost several bombers due to this they changed the handling/dropping procedure,....can't remember where I read about it so can't quote properly.

from your book recommendation (War Over the Steppes):

[...] The battle for air supremacy opened with two waves striking airfields. The first, involving 47 per cent of the total strike force (637 aircraft), claimed the destruction of 800 aircraft, while the second claimed 700 victims, for a total loss of 35 German aircraft. Much of the damage was inflicted by 1.9kg SD 2 and 10kg SD 10 anti-personnel bomblets that detonated 50 centimetres above the ground with a 12-metre lethal zone, unexploded ordnance providing an instant minefield – although their supersensitive fuses blew up several bombers en route to targets during the day.(*) These missions were so successful that total Luftwaffe losses on the opening day of Barbarossa amounted to just 78 aircraft – 61 destroyed or badly damaged by enemy action and 17 in accidents, with a further 89 damaged, including 50 by enemy action.

(*) This ordnance was carried in AB-23 (23 SD 2s) and AB-250 (108 SD 2s or 17 SD 10s).
[...]

[Wiedrock]

Yea that is similar but I remember the bombs being stuck to the bay doors. So it may be another source or my memory rewrote the strory to quite an amount, which is possible.

But either way, they had and used them, that's the point. So it's not like they had nothing similar/nothing similar in development.

[thek3mu]

Yea that is similar but I remember the bombs being stuck to the bay doors. So it may be another source or my memory rewrote the strory to quite an amount, which is possible.

But either way, they had and used them, that's the point. So it's not like they had nothing similar/nothing similar in development.

true, man! ... i just love these details, here's another quote (then i'll leave it alone.):

[...] There was also a technical problem which is worth mentioning in connection with the bombers’ activity.
During the mission against Spišská Nová Ves airfield, an armed 10 kg fragmentation bomb (SD 10) was shaken
out of a Ju 86 on the runway at Debrecen-Epreskert airfield. Fortunately the bomb did not explode instantly and
an armourer, őrmester László Bodó defused it, before the formation returned from the mission. I was not able
to determine, whether this particular bomb was shaken out of an aircraft during take-off and opened the bomb
bay door without an explosion, or whether it dropped from an aircraft which had returned early and landed with
its entire bomb load or part of it. But it is certain that, according to Hungarian experience, the SD 10 bombs
were sometimes unstable in the bomb racks of medium bombers, sometimes getting stuck or being shaken loose.
Later there were two accidents with 10 kg fragmentation bombs with the Ju 86s of 3/3. Bomber Squadron’s
aircraft at Veszprém (after its renumbering as 4/3.). No wonder that after these events the crews disliked the SD
10. [...]

from "Baptism of Fire The First Combat Experiences of the Royal Hungarian Air Force and Slovak Air Force, March 1939" (was searching my collection for "bay door" ... )