STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

A complete overhaul and re-development of Gary Grigsby's War in the East, with a focus on improvements to historical accuracy, realism, user interface and AI.

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thek3mu
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STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by thek3mu »

... from here: https://forums.matrixgames.com/viewtopi ... 2#p5295292

Wiedrock wrote: Sat Oct 17, 2026 12:54 pm [...]
STRATEGIC BOMBING
What certainly does not work out is Strategic bombing on tanks/plane factories. As Germans you'll usually lose more planes than you'd deny the Soviets.
What works at times is RAILYARD/PORT to stop/limit movements by sea (Leningrad) or by rail. But especially the latter having a range of 30 Hexes for requesting trains makes it hard to execute but you see an example here for T1.

Reducing the enemy's logistics by Air is something we need to figure out how to do by air (besides the interdiction example I shared above). So GA Railyard + GA Railway in combination....
German Air Force Operations in Support of the Army / Interdiction of the Battlefield
[...]In the 1-11 September 1941 period the V Air Corps committed relatively weak forces to interdict the rail route leading from Kharkov through Poltava into the pocket area, but at the same time dispatched units to attack all other rail routes leading westward and southward from the west through Kharkov and farther east.

[...] The primary target was railway rolling stock. During the most crucial periods of the battle, for example on 8 September, units executed as many as fifty strikes against locomotives and against complete railway trains. Special type SC-100 bombs were used repeatedly. Frequent use was made of 4. 4-pound (2 kilogram) bombs in containers in an effort to cause fires.

It is no longer possible to determine to what extent the Russian rail system was permanently damaged. The fact that only very few man-made structures existed in the areas under attack resulted in few possibilities to do any lasting damage. However, reports from the period under discussion mention large numbers of trains halted and numerous trains derailed. Although it must be said that the effects of each individual air attack were not always great, the cumulative effects of the operations can be considered as adequately satisfactory. The Russian side was no longer in a position to maintain properly scheduled traffic, to move in essential supplies to the troops inside the gradually developing pocket, or to move the Russian forces out of the trap which was closing. Large numbers of trains were frequently observed halted on the main lines. At some points, however, and even within the area under German attack, the Russians did succeed in moving in reserves from the outside. On 18 September, for example, the Second Panzer Group came under attack by a Russian tank division and a cavalry division newly arrived in the area.[...]
25.4.1. Railyard Capacity
Railyards represent the rolling stock available for moving units and freight. If the railyard size is greater than 1, then each undamaged railyard factory point, or level, produces 10k tons of rail capacity per turn with the exception that railyards located in the same hex as a national supply source (25.2.3) will produce 200k tons of capacity per level per turn.[...]
level? factory point? which is it ... or both?
25.4.2. Damaged Railyards
Railyard damage will reduce the amount of freight that would be shipped and unloaded at a railyard depot in the hex. There is a percentage chance equal to the railyard damage that the amount shipped to a railyard depot will be divided by 10.
If a railyard is damaged either due to being recently constructed or captured, then it will automatically try to assign any available construction unit to speed repairs.
i'd like to reduce the future rolling stock of the enemy ... :?: how to do if not by strategic bombing? GA railyard is enough? :roll:
So muss man erst mal machen können.
-- complicated moves fanboy
Sammy5IsAlive
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by Sammy5IsAlive »

You can't really reduce the future stock as you describe. Railyards repair and their capacity to do so is unlimited. So you can only really affect the present situation. Your ideal target would be a railyard that is likely to be supplying large amounts of troops without many backup options elsewhere - a situation that is much more likely in the South than in the more developed North. Note that what you'd be doing is targeting the railyard facilities themselves rather than the rolling stock.
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thek3mu
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by thek3mu »

what you say is what i wanted to hear, so thank you. ofc, there's no explicit "rolling stock" target - 2+ railyards will do just fine, i guess. :)
attached is my idea of this ... random target right now ... just to illustrate.
... like this?
... like this?
ksnip_20261019-150746.png (1.86 MiB) Viewed 294 times
So muss man erst mal machen können.
-- complicated moves fanboy
Sammy5IsAlive
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by Sammy5IsAlive »

I've not tried bombing railyards myself so I cannot really comment on the AD. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is to check that the bomber payload is on that includes heavier bombs (rather than lots of lighter bombs).

Just a query - are you proposing doing this on turn 1 or did you just load a fresh game to show the AD?
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thek3mu
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by thek3mu »

Sammy5IsAlive wrote: Mon Oct 19, 2026 6:39 am I've not tried bombing railyards myself so I cannot really comment on the AD. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is to check that the bomber payload is on that includes heavier bombs (rather than lots of lighter bombs).

Just a query - are you proposing doing this on turn 1 or did you just load a fresh game to show the AD?
nope, T1 not so much ... it's just were i happen to have my recent air setup is all. thanks, good thing to check load-outs, already took care of this. the strategic bombing show should start after T1 - the whole mess the Luftwaffe was in - here, there, everywhere and still ... they never got a chance to do real damage with strat bombing anyway.

it's mostly for flavor, i'm sure. :)
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Wiedrock
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by Wiedrock »

You would need to run a logistics Phase at least 2-3 times without the bombing and then with the bombing 2-3 times and see how the frontline depot's situation differs on average.
Do not forget that you are consuming freight for bombing yourself.
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thek3mu
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by thek3mu »

hey, thanks for your suggestion! thing is, when i imagine 2-3 turns ... that's 14 to 21 days ... and then again ...

come to think of "adequately satisfactory" here ...
[...] Although it must be said that the effects of each individual air attack were not always great, the cumulative effects of the operations can be considered as adequately satisfactory. [...]
that "feels" about right, even without knowing the exact numbers here - let's see how this plays out and if i (ever) get some numbers out of this exercise ...
yeah ... 8-)
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Wiedrock
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by Wiedrock »

I mean you have to roll the same turn 3 times and then the other turn with bombing 3 times, not to play 6 turns.
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thek3mu
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by thek3mu »

Wiedrock wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 12:26 am I mean you have to roll the same turn 3 times and then the other turn with bombing 3 times, not to play 6 turns.
ah! (a misunderstanding then ...) ok, like a test-setup. more re-rolls to escape RNG traps - makes sense. thanks.
So muss man erst mal machen können.
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Wiedrock
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by Wiedrock »

thek3mu wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 1:18 am
Wiedrock wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2026 12:26 am I mean you have to roll the same turn 3 times and then the other turn with bombing 3 times, not to play 6 turns.
ah! (a misunderstanding then ...) ok, like a test-setup. more re-rolls to escape RNG traps - makes sense. thanks.
I am not saying you have to, just that you should if you actually want to know if things work at all.
Ofc. you can LARP and do bombing and immerse into it having effects, you are free to do this.

I'd say Sammy was on point will all he said.
Your idea is interesting, but do we actually know how much trains we need in a Depot (or at all) in an area? Like, if you'd have a long line with only one Depot with trains in the 30 hex range....and that being 30k and you damage it to 15k but the whole "line" even when healthy only deliveres 5k freight per turn.....what's the effect on our usual 5k? Since....we still have trains capable transporting 15k in the area.
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thek3mu
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Re: STRATEGIC BOMBING RAILYARD

Post by thek3mu »

understood, and thanks for your time, as always. :)
So muss man erst mal machen können.
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