TOE upgrades still messed up.

[melvi]

Hello hello everyone!

A new public beta is now available for War in Spain 1936-39. You can download it by going to the Store Page and from My Page. It is also available from the following Download Link HERE.

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Data Changes

• More historical TOEs for both sides, resources at locations, and updates to train depots

TOE upgrades are quite messed up still. Asturianas LCUs go asturian militia all the way till 1938, they dont switch to north infantry. Same with santander LCUs all the way santander militias till 1938, no north infantry. The LCUs with infantry squad 33 stay infantry squad 33 all the way till 1938, they dont swith to people infantry squads ever. Basque units convert from whatever they are to Basque militia in first TOE and stay Basque militia all the way, they dont switch to north infantry.... etc, etc.
People militia squads arent used in any TOE, dunno if there should be an intermediate step between MAOC/P.C.E/UGT-CADCI/CNT-FAI militias and the people infantry squads using it, instead going MAOC---> people infantry directly ie.
Village volunteers company size stay village volunteers in all their TOE upgrades.
Requetes and falange units stay requetes/falange all the way till 1938 , they dont switch to infantry squads 36/37...
Yep.. pretty messed up still.

Regards:
Melvi

[Piteas]

TOE upgrades are quite messed up still. Asturianas LCUs go asturian militia all the way till 1938, they dont switch to north infantry.
- Although the northern militias were officially incorporated into military units (divisions, battalions) in the spring-summer of 1937, they remained militias in practice. They had little in common with the republican militias in the rest of Spain, which were far more militarized and controlled by the goverment. It is well known that the north men, mainly Asturians and Basques, fought the war on their own terms; the north TOE in the game attempts to reflect this issue.
It may not be perfect, but it is the most historical within the game.

People militia squads arent used in any TOE, dunno if there should be an intermediate step between MAOC/P.C.E/UGT-CADCI/CNT-FAI militias
-I cannot include a "intermediate unit" between republican militias and Popular Army units—what would that even be? Each militia transformed into a military unit as best it could over the course of a few weeks or even months. There is no a possible general TOE for that nor does the game engine allow for gradual changes.I know this overnight change isn’t historical, but an intermediate unit that never existed would be even less historical.

The LCUs with infantry squad 33 stay infantry squad 33 all the way till 1938".
- Give me an example. These could be errors or special cases.

"Requetes and falange units stay requetes/falange all the way till 1938 , they dont switch to infantry squads 36/37...
-It wasn’t my choice; it was the previous designer’s choice. He should be the one to explain it. But I assume it’s to preserve its distinctiveness following the unification decree.

Village volunteers company size stay village volunteers in all their TOE upgrades.
-The village volunteers are units of armed civilians. They do not modernize or become militarized.

[melvi]

TOE upgrades are quite messed up still. Asturianas LCUs go asturian militia all the way till 1938, they dont switch to north infantry.
- Although the northern militias were officially incorporated into military units (divisions, battalions) in the spring-summer of 1937, they remained militias in practice. They had little in common with the republican militias in the rest of Spain, which were far more militarized and controlled by the goverment. It is well known that the north men, mainly Asturians and Basques, fought the war on their own terms; the north TOE in the game attempts to reflect this issue.
It may not be perfect, but it is the most historical within the game.

Make them switch then to santander infantry and asturias infantry squads? they stay militias all the war. Same that the initial vasque different groups swtiching to "generic" basque militias and staying as basque militias, they dont switch to basque infantry. And if Rep. Norte Infant sq arent going to be used in TOES or we arent going to be able to upgrade the santander/asturias/various basque initial militias to santander/asturias/baque infantry then to Rep. Norte Infan. sq at some point... remove the Rep. Norte Infant. Sq from devices pool?
Although now i check the stats.. dunno if i want my asturias/santander/basque militias antisoft value 13 and looks like 10 men per squad switching to their counterparts infantry units with antisoft value 11 and looks like 8 men per squad. If i am not wrong that looks like a downgrade to me.
And , btw, if you are going to use the santander/asturias/basque militias allllll the way to 1938 you better adjust their production rate. They stop producing december 36 or january 37.

People militia squads arent used in any TOE, dunno if there should be an intermediate step between MAOC/P.C.E/UGT-CADCI/CNT-FAI militias
-I cannot include a "intermediate unit" between republican militias and Popular Army units—what would that even be? Each militia transformed into a military unit as best it could over the course of a few weeks or even months. There is no a possible general TOE for that nor does the game engine allow for gradual changes.I know this overnight change isn’t historical, but an intermediate unit that never existed would be even less historical.

Umhh either i explained myself badly or you misundertood me
I want the upgrade path be like this:
MAOC/P.C.E/UGT-CADCI/CNT-FAI militias -----> people militias-----> people infantry.
All of the initial republican various militias switching to a "generic" people millitia sq by the end of 36 beggining of 37, then months later people milita sq become people infantry sq as the republican army is been formed. Then again if there is no TOE using the people militia sqs and we arent going to be able to use them, remove them from the game??. If we are going to be able to manually switch any MAOC/P.C.E/UGT-CADCI/CNT-FAI militias to people militia sq. when they start been produced, fine.

The LCUs with infantry squad 33 stay infantry squad 33 all the way till 1938".
- Give me an example. These could be errors or special cases.

lcu slot number: 7141, 7399, 7413, 8041, 7187, 7376, 12007, 12041... all the initial R.I. that i have fount. They have TOE with infantry squad 33 all war.

"Requetes and falange units stay requetes/falange all the way till 1938 , they dont switch to infantry squads 36/37...
-It wasn’t my choice; it was the previous designer’s choice. He should be the one to explain it. But I assume it’s to preserve its distinctiveness following the unification decree.

Fine, but their TOEs arent even using the squads: requete squad 37 and falange squad 37 that exists. They stay the version from year 36 all the war, according to their toes.
If only the version from year 36 is going to be used you should adjust the production date for them too. They end production in december 36.

Village volunteers company size stay village volunteers in all their TOE upgrades.
-The village volunteers are units of armed civilians. They do not modernize or become militarized.

And arent they disbanded at some point? Dunno if either side would send "village volunteers" as "soldiers" anywhere. Either they would be trained to something else or disbanded, rigth?


Regards:
Melvi

[Piteas]

Make them switch then to santander infantry and asturias infantry squads? they stay militias all the war. Same that the initial vasque different groups swtiching to "generic" basque militias and staying as basque militias, they dont switch to basque infantry….

When I took charge of the game, I found that the northen militian units lacked the option to be upgraded to asturian, etc... infantry; I chose not to change them, for the reasons mentioned earlier. That said, they are in editor and any modder is free to use them for a different north scenario. However, in editor the northen militias are downgraded to worse infantry to reflect the lack of almost everything in the north during a hypothetical scenario in 1937–38. Although the squads can be modified, like everything else.



And , btw, if you are going to use the santander/asturias/basque militias allllll the way to 1938 you better adjust their production rate. They stop producing december 36 or january 37.

The game is quite historical in its general concept. If the North does not link up with the rest of the Republic by 1937—at the very latest—its chances of surviving isolated allllll the way to 1938 are zero. If something different is desired, a new scenario must be created.



I want the upgrade path be like this:
MAOC/P.C.E/UGT-CADCI/CNT-FAI militias -----> people militias-----> people infantry.

Ok, now I understand it. Sadly, that option isn't available in the official scenarios, but it’s there for anyone who wants to create their own. In this case, with little effort.
I know you don’t like the game that way, you want the transition, but you would have to create a new scenario by modifying the republican units.



lcu slot number: 7141, 7399, 7413, 8041, 7187, 7376, 12007, 12041... all the initial R.I. that i have fount. They have TOE with infantry squad 33 all war.

Ah, the R.I. units. That’s how the previous designer handed them over to me; he asked me to change as little of his work as possible—which I did, because it’s very good work, especially considering he’s not a specialist in the spanish civil war or Spain in general. He should be the one to answer you, though I assume it’s to weaken those units relative to others during the war.


Fine, but their TOEs arent even using the squads: requete squad 37 and falange squad 37 that exists. They stay the version from year 36 all the war, according to their toes.
If only the version from year 36 is going to be used you should adjust the production date for them too. They end production in december 36.

Hum... you´re right... I believe this is a terrible mistake in the Banderas that must be corrected. Thanks!


And arent they disbanded at some point? Dunno if either side would send "village volunteers" as "soldiers" anywhere. Either they would be trained to something else or disbanded, rigth?

I will think about this. Certainly, we should provide a chance for upgrading to these poor civilians.