planes on japanese subs+2 more questions

[Rendova]

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

Aah, light, men. Today, you crimb down into manned tolpedo, we weld hatch shut, you dlive out to Yankee freet, clash into ship, kirr youserf and arr on boald.

Question? Yeah, you, Hashimoto in the back.

"Captain, you outta you f#cking mind."

Really got to wonder about that mindset

[Brady]

The Book I-Boat Cpatain, has several passages in it that detail the operations of the Kaiten. Their piolets were specialy trained men who were taken aboard along with their Kaitens, before Launch a special cermony was preformed (like the Kamakise piolets had), they intered their craft through if I remember corectly a special hatchway, and then were launched to their targets, in the book one of the Kaitens malfunctioned and could not be launched it's piolet was extreamly disapointed that he could not go...

The man who sank the Indanapolis was intergated after the war and I beleave he rated them a 1 in 3 as being suxcesfull in hitting the target...I nead to check that figure though...

[Damien Thorn]

ORIGINAL: Rendova

Really got to wonder about that mindset

Not really. It's the same mindset that you see in suicide bombers in the middle east today, or at least similar. It's people who have lost all hope for the future. It's people who feel they have nothing to live for and nothing to lose. It's a strong sense of duty that overwhelms sense of survival. In the same was that a fireman would risk his own life to do his duty and try adn rescue someone from a burning building. If his sense of duty couldn't overcome his sense of survival he would refuse to go into the burning building.

To most Japanese, Kamikaze or not, they felt that they were going to die anyway by 1945. So, if you know you are going to die, why not go out in a blaze of glory using the latest and greates sucide weapon instead of trying to fight conventionally, which obviously wasn't working. I imagine the kamikaze pilots thought it was the non-kamikaze pilots who were throwing their lives away because they stood no chance of doing any significant damage to the enemy before dying. The kamikaze at least stood a chance. Sure, he would die but there is a difference in dying and throwing one's life away.

I'm not saying I agree with that mindset but that's how I think they saw it.

[mdiehl]

The man who sank the Indanapolis was intergated after the war and I beleave he rated them a 1 in 3 as being suxcesfull in hitting the target

He would not have been qualified to make that judgement, since he was not informed as to the number of attacks launched vs the number of attacks that succeeded. That's one of the problems with anecdotes. They're not worth dreck.

[mdiehl]

BTW how much oil hauling capacity will the Kaitens have?

Please be more specific. Do you mean the wooden hulled kaitens that were used to support the civilian economy or the rocket powered kaitens used to drop 'Yankee Go Home' leaflet bombs on Saipan?

[Halsey]

I love it! It's what this game needs more of, ahistorical inaccuracies.[&o]

[pasternakski]

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn
It's the same mindset that you see in suicide bombers in the middle east today, or at least similar.

A 14-year-old girl at a slumber party could offer more in-depth analysis than this.

Did you stop to think of the cultural differences? The different eras? The different circumstances?

Suicide bombers do not confine their activities to the Middle East. They strike only Israel or other "infidel" nations there. They are tools of religious zealots bent on turning belief into power through wanton destruction of innocent life (whether zealotry is minority or mainstream in 21st century Islam is a question not to be debated in this small discussion).

Japanese who served as suicide weapons in late World War II were tools of a state that usurped self-pride and, in its death throes, sacrificed lives of its own innocent people in one last, pathetic attempt to stem the tide in hope of some sort of negotiated settlement after a misguided, ultimately weak, and failed, attempt at conquest.

Then, we faced the desperation of defeat. Now, we face Death glorying in the flower of victory.

[Dunedain]

The Japanese warrior code of self-sacrifice allowed for such things as the kamikaze and kaiten pilots.
But do not compare them in any way to these muslim terrorist scum bags of today. The kamikaze
and kaiten pilots were attacking *military* targets. These terrorist nuts just go around mass murdering civilians
in their private little war to try to force us all convert to islam or die.

Two completely different things.

[decourcy]

Hi all,

Actually Damien Thorn is much closer to correct than Pasternaki
or Dunedain.
Your inane remarks about Islam just show your ignorance.

I won't even go into 9/11 but since 1981 how many Islamic terrorist attacks have occured within the USA?
Is the curve going higher or lower towards today? Or staying the same?
Which religious group has launched the most domestic (USA) terrorist attacks since 1981?

The answers would be:
1. Not many
2. Going way down. All terrorism was long before the Gestapo, i mean Homeland Security.
3. Judaism. yes, believe it or not. You probably get your news from a large news program or one of the big East or West coast papers. Guess what, they will not mention these things because they are owned and operated by Jews.

Next, How many Islamic suicide bombers since 1989 have blown up Israeli school children? 1

How many Israeli suicide bombers have blown up Palestinian children? 10

Interesting huh? Bet you didn't know about that....

Every religion is full of zealots. India's government today is essentially Hindu fundimentalist, Israel is Jewish fundimentalist, the USA is essentially Southern Baptist fundementalist.

For those of you going 'hey, I am a southern Baptist, we aren't like that!' well, the Southern Baptists are losing droves of members because the leadership is scaring many members. Such life time members as Jimmy Carter has left them.

Sorry about all that but ignorant, racist comments just burn my cheese and international relations is what i do for a living.

Michael

[Nikademus]

The answers would be:

4. How long before Vic da Moderator makes an appearance? [X(]

Now might be a time for cooler heads to prevail and get back on-topic.

[2ndACR]

decourcy,

i think that speech needs to go to AOW forum. This is not the place for it.

[decourcy]

2nd ACR,

I agree, however, the speech before mine also did not need to be there. I will never let defensless people be abused.
Just call me Don Quixote.

Mike

[madflava13]

Last I checked this forum is about a game and related topics...

"My theory of international relations is better than your theory" is definitely not part of that discussion....

Unless your theory involves beer and flying kamikaze Yamato ships. Then by all means pull up a chair and let's hear it!

[el cid again]

He would not have been qualified to make that judgement, since he was not informed as to the number of attacks launched vs the number of attacks that succeeded. That's one of the problems with anecdotes. They're not worth dreck.

In his first book (I Boat Captain) Capt Orita reviewed all Japanese submarine attacks - using data from Japanese sources. Decades later, he co authored a USNI book with an American Historian - and does the same thing with data from both sides. [See The Japanese Submarine Force and World War II - Boyd and Orita]. He is probably tied for first place as a person whose opinion is to be respected in Japanese submarine matters.

Note that the Japanese REPORTED a hit every time a kaiten was heard to explode. Being submerged they could not see the hit- so they assumed it. It was not until after the war they could get data from the other side.

The Kaiten concept was not stupid - it was a pioneer of the concept of the guided torpedo. During the war, Germany, the USA and Japan experimented with guided torpedoes - acoustic and wire - but the technology was barely up to the task. A Kaiten was an attempt to substitute a human as both sensor and guidance computer. Today, we often have humans in the guidance loop - but they are on the launching submarine and send signals along a wire to the torpedo. The Kaiten was anything but a completely decisive weapon - but it was dangerous - because if you got hit it had a big warhead. In addition to the sunk ships mentioned, there were a number of damaged ships.

I think I have figured out how to put the Kaiten in WITP - and am testing it now. I do not rate it as very likely to hit - it is a one torpedo spread - but you won't like it if it does hit.

[saj42]

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Since these aircraft were to be used prmarily for recon, will it show the dreaded red line of approach? Or does that only appear from land bases air units?

Naval Search dosen't have a 'red line of approach'. The sighting report will just let your opponent know the sub is somewhere within4/5 hexes radius

[Yamato hugger]

ORIGINAL: Tallyho!

ORIGINAL: Halsey

Since these aircraft were to be used prmarily for recon, will it show the dreaded red line of approach? Or does that only appear from land bases air units?

Naval Search dosen't have a 'red line of approach'. The sighting report will just let your opponent know the sub is somewhere within4/5 hexes radius

Well actually it will. Its like any other recon aircraft. If you are on "naval search" there will not be a red line. Same as land based search aircraft. If you do a recon mission, there will indeed be a red line, just like a land based search aircraft.