I won't buy this game without a demo. Why?

[NimitsTexan]

I bought this game this week. Only had a chance to finish two short scenarios so far, but this is an absolutely fascinating Wargame. So simple, my 10 year brother could play, yet so complex I have difficulty mastering even the simpler scenarios (and I have been wargaming since I was 10 myself). You have to play it to believe, but if you like large scale tactical wargames, you cannot go wrong here.

[Arjuna]

Welcome NimitsTexan. Thanks for the comments.[:)]

[NefariousKoel]

To be honest,

I've been turned off by demos to find that, with lack of anything else decent, I buy the full version (making myself feel guilty going against my own judgement even) and it's great! The best I can say for a the rest of the demos is that ... it's the way the whole damn game goes and it sucks too.

Shouldn't someone put up another "demo or not to demo" vote just so I can vote - demos suck!

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

It's all in how the demo is done that counts.

Just the other day I located the demos for the older (ya I know they ain't new Les) games Close Combat 2, 3, and 5 (4 must be out there somewhere).

I personally think they were done "appropriately. Or in otherwords, all you are given is a functioning scenario. Just ONE!
The person can clearly see how the game runs, they can clearly see the whole interface in operation, but they DON'T have enough of a functioning game, that it will be enough game to just settle for that.

I come from the world of ASL (Advanced Squad Leader) and they have fiiiiiiiinally gotten around to making a "Starter Kit" for the system. A module that is a learning tool.
What is cool is it teaches, but it's not ASL Lite, you can't just cop out and just buy it and expect it will be enough.
Although, there are some clamouring for add ons to the Starter kit. Some people just don't get the concept of a demo or in the case of ASL, a Starter.

But some games are just to much game to just produce a demo for "adequately".
And of course "adequately" is a term that has to count to both the person(s) selling the game, as well as the person buying the game.

I have seen games, where the demo idea just won't fly. I have seen games where a demo was done, but it was rushed, and the game got burned by a bad preview.
Demos are not always a garantee of success. Just having a demo doesn't mean you have any reason to feel comfortable about getting a good assessment of the game.

[MarkShot]

Actually, I think one of the aspects I most appreciate about a demo is to get a sense of the games performance on my hardware.

Often the minimum and recommended specs for a game tend to be wildly underestimated. In most cases, you can assume that if the demo has all types of problems on your hardware, then you are not going to do any better with the full game.

Of course, for war strategy games, performance requirements tend to be more relaxed than for flight sims and racing simulations.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Performance appraisal is a good point.

According to specs, I can run both Squad Assault and Battlefield 1942 on my computer.

But looking at it playing on my friends much better computer, its apparent it sucks on mine.

[Jaws]

First time poster here.

I also hesitate buying any game without a demo. Not for testing game play and how it runs on my hardware but to see if there's a problem with crashing, rebooting, or getting kicked out to the desktop. All to common a problem with windows computers and the main reason I try the demos first before buying a game.

I can't believe I didn't find out about AA:RDOA and now AA:HTTR sooner. From what I've read they remind me of my beloved games from Sid Meier when he was with Microprose. I'm talking about Crusade in Europe, Decision in the Desert and Conflict in Vietnam on a C64. These games had their problems but they had pause-able real time, an operational overview, order delay and what-if scenarios. Way ahead of its time. I hate micro-managing but love historical wargames with what-if scenarios.

Anyway, I did download AA:RDOA and the first thing I noticed is it would only install from an administer account. Strike one. Then as I played the demo the first time it kicked me to the desktop. The second try at the demo caused a reboot. Strike two.

I don't know the specs the game needs since there isn't much info anymore. I am running a win2k machine, perhaps that's it. I know it's only my problem not being able to run the game, but if the game is unplayable for me because of crashes why buy it, and the only way to tell is with a demo.

I really want to get AA:HTTR because it's what I like to play. But right now, unless I can figure out my problem running the demo, I think I'll pass. Too bad, I hope it's not strike three for this game.

Thanks

[Mr.Frag]

As I can run both AA & HTTR on Windows 2000 Server, Winows XP Pro, and Windows 2003 Server, it is safe to assume that the problem is on your end.

Perhaps you'd like to list what you've got and what you are trying to do so people can help you ...

[Arjuna]

Jaws,

We no longer support the RDOA demo.

We have very few reports of users having technical problems with HTTR. Of the few we have had, most were problems relating to copy protection, which we have fixed in the first patch. HTTR is very robust. It does require Administrator mode to install because it updates registry entries. It has to do this to run.

We will not be putting out a demo of HTTR for a whole swag of reasons which I have explained already in detail on this forum. I realise that for some this is a deal breaker and we accept and respect their decision on this. But please realise that unless the demo includes a fully integrated tutorial that does not require users to read a manual it is going to lose us more sales than it makes. We know this from the RDOA demo. Right now we cannot justify the investment in developing an integrated turorial. The few extra sales that it will gain is not worth the cost of development. Rather we will invest our limited resources into further development of the game engine and in developing new games/scenarios. Maybe in the future we'll be able to do so, but not right now.

[NimitsTexan]

One one hand, SMG/SMA/WNLB/ANGV all had well done demos, kept you interested enough to want to get the full game without giving you enough to satisfy. The demo for Blitzkrieg actually convinced me to buy after reviews had convinced me not to. The demo for CC2 had to be one of the best all time demo in computer game history; that one demo brought the CC series $210 of my money (CC2, CC3, CC4, CC5, GIC, and EYSAWF). The demo for MOHAA lead me to buy that game as well, as, eventually, both expansion packs.

On the other, hand, the demo for LOMAC was so pathetic, that I ended up buying the game in spite of it rather than because of it.

On the other hand, I bought BFV without a demo (and after having been dissillusioned with the original BF1942) and love it. I bought UV, AAHttR, and HOI without a demo, and have been unquestionably pleased with all of them. I bought LotR: RotK without a demo, and enjoyed every (short) minute of it.

On the other hand, the demo for Empires Dawn of the Modern World convinced me to buy it, yet I have hardly played it at all, so under-impressed I have been by it.

On the other hand, I bought War and Peace 1796-1815 and PotC without a demo, and was disgusted by them. I bought Praetorians without a demo, and have hardly touched it.

On the other hand . . .

[miclogic]

I will second what almost everyone in this forum posting has said, this is really a classic game that concentrates your attention on sound decision making. That being said, if you still own the Korsun and exp game and would like to get rid of them, I would consider purchasing them from you or putting together a trade. Send me a PM and we can chat. I've been wanting to pick them up for some time and just haven't gotten around to it.[8|]

[Guz]

I bought CC2 for the cover art. Looked like it might be fun.Now THAT was a lucky purchase!

[elmo3]

Played the SC demo and decided it wasn't for me. Played the RDOA demo and bought HTTR. Bought KP without a demo. No regrets on any of those decisions.

[Taipan61]

I've been playing board wargames since I was 15, which was a long long time ago. Over the years the people whom I could play against diminished and now these games just gather dust in my cupboard.

Computer games using counters are not that common, and the last real counter computer game that I really enjoyed was the World at War series. Stalingrad, America Invades and Crusader gave me endless hours of enjoyment. I was even a beta tester for the 4th addition of the W@W series centering on the Battle of the Bulge, but it never got off the ground once AH was sold. Since then I have bought a number of other games, but the enjoyment was never captured again. I lost counter of the amount of $ that I have wasted thought buying a game just from looking at the box art, but I needed to get my fix.

I made a hard and fast rule a long time ago now, that I would never buy another game unless I was able to play a demo version of the game before outlaying my hard earned money. I look at the game forums to get a general view of the game, and if I like what I see I download the demo. Each person is an individual, and what is a fantastic game for one person can be an utter carp for another. The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is a downloadable demo.

Ok, I downloaded the "Virtual Tour", and what I saw does impress me, but you can only get the real "feel" of a game by way of a demo. Is it THAT hard to make a demo using one of the many different scenarios? Just stop the demo half way through the scenario, it is that simple. I want to get a feel for the game mechanics and AI, and a demo is the only way I am achieve this.

The game looks great, it really does, but unless I can get a real feel for the game through a downloadable demo, I will never be a customer of Matrix/Panther games.

[elmo3]

Play the Red Devils Over Arnhem demo. HTTR is an much improved version of that game so if you like that demo you'll love HTTR.

[Mr.Frag]

Most forums are filled with whines, complaints, etc from unhappy people.

Do you see ANY of those posts in here?

That you really give you a good indication of the quality of the game. Even the few issues that were pointed out and corrected in patches were done so in very polite ways with none of the common "this game sucks because blah blah is broken". Find me any other game forum that reads like this one and I'll go buy that game too!

If that does not convince you, even a demo is not going to do so. Feedback from your fellow wargames can make or break a game. Look at the size of the support forum and compare it to any other product out there ... this one is pretty much empty apart from a couple of issues with people having cd drives too old to deal with the copy protection (which was corrected in the very first patch).

The major complaint in this entire forum was the font size in the manual which *again* was corrected by PDF versions in the patch for those who had trouble reading. [;)]

The only outstanding complaint is that the strategy guide is not out for purchase yet because people want to spend *more* money on this game because is is such a keeper. [:)]

When those are the worst complaints people can come up with about something, it should really tell you a lot about the product. Sorry that some of you have chosen to miss out on what is probably the best war game ever written. This game is so unique that it really defies explanation as to a catagory, but if you remember the old V for Victory series and Close Combat series and take the best from both and merge in a brand new control scheme that makes the entire game much simpler to play then you *start* to get an idea of how good this is.

[pkpowers]

Yes Mr.Frag, very well spoken ; I second all of your thoughts, this has to be one of the best land warfare games made. Also in it's own rights Uncommon Valor ranks as the leader of naval warfare.

[Tzar007]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Most forums are filled with whines, complaints, etc from unhappy people.

Do you see ANY of those posts in here?

Very true indeed.

I am wandering on other boards also, and everytime I have seen a discussion about HTTR, there was no negative remarks about it. Usually it was very positive and even the people who did not like it doesn't like it because it is badly done or it does not work as intented, but just because they either prefer small tactical simulations (like CMBB) or either prefer more strategic ones (like SC).

[Taipan61]

Even the few issues that were pointed out and corrected in patches were done so in very polite ways with none of the common "this game sucks because blah blah is broken". Find me any other game forum that reads like this one and I'll go buy that game too!

Totally agree with you, and that is why I am interested. The forum speaks highly of the game, and so it has past my first "test" as such. I've downloaded RDOH and family commitments permitting I'll give it a test run this week.

It has been mentioned that HTTR is an much improved version of RDOH, and if I like RDOH I will love HTTR. That brought a smile to my face as exactly the same thing was said to me about Europa Universalis/Hearts of Iron, and it took until V1.05 to play a decent game of HOI.

Call me wary if you like but I have been bitten too many times on the arse by games that promise so much and delivery so little. I guess I am instantly cautious when the game developer does not provide a demo so that I can sample his wares. All that does is put the thought "what are they hidding" into my mind.

[petdoc]

Yes, but after spending 2 seconds on the HOI forums, no amount of " if you liked EU, you'll love HOI" would convince me that HOI belonged anywhere other than the bargain bin. You should really put more faith in Mr Frags post, us HTTR lovers dont all work for Panther[;)]