Jap Sub Doctrine

[marky]

i think i remember seeing this explained sumwhere, but i cant rmember where

wat IS the jap sub doctrine?

[Tiornu]

It's a broad topic. In short, the Japanese saw their subs as tactical weapons. They anticipated defeating America via a series of stinging tactical victories and taking the heart out of the soft Westerners before a prolonged fight wore down the inferior Japanese pool of resources. As a result, strategic targets like merchant traffic received low priority.

[LordHawke]

In game terms, the IJN subs will save their torpedoes for enemy high value units like CVs, BBs and CAs. Hitting APs and the like would be considered wasteful.

I think some players still get quite mad with sub behavior even then, what with subs going off to hit barges, wasting torps on SCs, etc. Go figure. [;)]

[sven6345789]

they do attack AP's and AK's, but very seldom. Normally, they only prey on warships in air or surface combat taskforces.

[sven6345789]

for a good description on japanese Sub usage take a look at
http://www.combinedfleet.com

scroll down to the bottom of the page and klick on submarines

[AmiralLaurent]

I personnaly play with the doctrine off. Using the Japanese subs against transports or warships is a decision to be taken at a strategic level, not tactical.

Actually, Japanese subs were also used against merchant shipping, especially at the end of the Java campain in 1942 and in the Ocean Indian in 1942-1943.

In game terms, if the doctrine is on, you can't target Allied convoys and so no DD will be needed to protect them so the whole ASW USN might will be deployed around the biggest warships and your subs won't be able to do anything.

[marky]

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

It's a broad topic. In short, the Japanese saw their subs as tactical weapons. They anticipated defeating America via a series of stinging tactical victories and taking the heart out of the soft Westerners before a prolonged fight wore down the inferior Japanese pool of resources. As a result, strategic targets like merchant traffic received low priority.

o ya now i remember

they developed fleet boats to join in the battles

the jap sub doctrine did help them early on, wen we had few carriers

the wasp was sunk in the battle of the eastern solomons-(if i remember right) by a jap sub, and the SAME dam jap boat blew the poor Juneau and 4 of the 5 sullivan brothers off the face of the earth

(george, the last 1 was killed by a shark [:(] )

[marky]

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

I personnaly play with the doctrine off. Using the Japanese subs against transports or warships is a decision to be taken at a strategic level, not tactical.

Actually, Japanese subs were also used against merchant shipping, especially at the end of the Java campain in 1942 and in the Ocean Indian in 1942-1943.

In game terms, if the doctrine is on, you can't target Allied convoys and so no DD will be needed to protect them so the whole ASW USN might will be deployed around the biggest warships and your subs won't be able to do anything.

true

and jap subs operated in concert with nazi uboats, the 1 point where they cooperated in war ops

[marky]

ORIGINAL: sven6345789

for a good description on japanese Sub usage take a look at
http://www.combinedfleet.com

scroll down to the bottom of the page and klick on submarines

lol i already have that site bookmarked

its one of my fave and main ww2 sources [:'(]

[Tiornu]

Wasp was not sunk during any particular battle. She was torpedoed by I-19. Juneau was torpedoed by I-26.

[sven6345789]

actually, the total number of Merchant ships sunk by japanese subs was VERY low compared to german subs in the atlantic or US+BR subs in the pacific.

I generally leave it up to the japanese player. if he wants it off, so be it.
I like to have it on, even if that favors the allies.

[marky]

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

Wasp was not sunk during any particular battle. She was torpedoed by I-19. Juneau was torpedoed by I-26.

yes she was

i jus cant remember WHERE [:@]

and the same jap boat sank the juneau

[marky]

ORIGINAL: Tiornu

Wasp was not sunk during any particular battle. She was torpedoed by I-19. Juneau was torpedoed by I-26.

hmm


apparently, i was thinking of sumthing else or i got sumthing mixed up

my bad, tiornu [&o] -


Two weeks later, on 15 September, I-19 achieved an incredible success when she fired six torpedoes at aircraft carrier USS Wasp. Two of these hit the carrier forward and ignited gasoline storage, dooming the ship. The remaining four torpedoes of this salvo went several thousand yards further and encountered a second American carrier task force, damaging battleship USS North Carolina enough to require two months to repair, and sinking destroyer USS O'Brien. This was among the most damaging torpedo salvoes in history. On 13 October, it was again the turn of I-26 as she finished off USS Juneau, one of several damaged and unescorted American cruisers which survived the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal the evening before. The loss of life on USS Juneau was extreme, including the five Sullivan brothers. Bagnasco credits all of the Type B boats (B1, B2, and B3 combined) with sinking 56 merchant ships of 372,730 GRT.


i ahd originally said that wasp was torpedoed during a naval battle, cuz isaw a program on the history channel that said a US convoy going to guadalcanal was attacked by a jap sub, and that the wasp was her victim

ill have to check it again


my source for this was here -

http://www.combinedfleet.com/type_b1.htm

[Pascal_slith]

A couple of very good books on the Japanese Submarine fleet:

Submarines of the Imperial Japanese Navy 1904-1945 by Norman Polmar and Dorr Carpenter

Japanese Submarine Force and World War II by Carl Boyd and Akihiko Yoshida

I-Boat Captain by Zenji Orita


many here probably already have these. This is info for newbies.

[marky]

i have a big sub book

with pix of course

SUBMARINES - LEVIATHANS OF THE DEEP

[bradfordkay]

i ahd originally said that wasp was torpedoed during a naval battle, cuz isaw a program on the history channel that said a US convoy going to guadalcanal was attacked by a jap sub, and that the wasp was her victim

Your mistake is trusting a History Channel documentary. They're great for seeing footage of WWII, but don't expect accuracy...