An Aussie Beta Affair - Luskan V Raver!!!

[Andy Mac]

Thanks Raverdave I guess Ill need to try it out when the game comes out should be an interesting experiment to try and hold onto Rangoon and lose Delhi or Karachi [:D]

I figured that Singapore was a lost cause but im guessing that holding onto it as a base beyond mid Feb starts to cause major problems for a Japanese player's economy i.e. an allied base across the least time route to the DEI although I guess with the quality of Allied fighters at this stage the Japanese Airforce can close Singapore airstrip at will by mid Feb so holding onto it is of limited value.

[Raverdave]

A tactic that I do use is to pull all the Aussie units out of Singapore as fast as possible for their use in the defence of Australia. ( I have deep political reasons for this). I have tried this twice now and have been 100% sucessful once and 50% sucessful the other time, the APs got bombed and I lost a whole brigade at sea when the ships sank[:(]

[Andy Mac]

It appears a good tactic (although I obviously havnt played the game yet) as an experienced battle ready formation can tilt the balance in many fights .

How flexible is the usage of this formation after you pull it out i.e. can it be allocated to SWPac or SOPAC HQ for use in PM or securing New Caledonia or does it have to go to ANZAC.

Also how many PP does it cost to Evac out of Malaya ?

[mogami]

Hi, Right next to Suva is another base Nadi. Located there is a NZ Bde of 170 assault points. When I am allied the first order I give to a ground unit is for this Bde to march to Suva.

[Raverdave]

I ussually send them strait to Perth and then decide wher they will be placed. So they are attached to Australia Command.........once again, I am at work so I cannot tell you how much it costs in PP to pull them out, but seem to remember that I had little or no points left afterwards.[:D] IIRC it costs about 2000 PP to move a division from one HQ to another.....but I am just running off my memory here and THAT is always a dangerous thing to rely on[;)]

[jrcar]

Ref Fiji, Suva and Nadi.

While Suva is the capital of Fiji Nadi/Lautoka is the industrial heart with the main port and airfield. Nadi and Lautoka is the heart of the sugar cane industry in Fiji and so had resonable infrastructure to support the loading of shipping.

Before Suva could be used the Ameriacns blasted a hole in the reef to widen and deapen it.

Fiji is split geographically into two zones, the grass land zone and the rainforest zone. The grassland zone is caused by rainshadow effects and runs like a fence line. The grassland zone is the "food bowl" especially from an export perspective and is dominated by the Indian poulation. The rainforest area is mostly Fijian and subsitance (some cattle and pigs).

During WW22 the main defences were at Momi (defending the good passages into Lautoka/Nadi) and in Suva. As a kid I played in and visited both.

Nadi/Lautoka is the only part of Fiji worth taking from a logistics perspective. Good port, flat areas for airfields, road and rail infrastructure and supplies. Suva has a small port (needs improvement) an isolated airfield (Rewa) and poor infrastructure.

But Suva is a nicer place to live

Cheers

Rob

[TIMJOT]

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

[Singapore will ALWAYS fall (and from the IJN players perspective...it must). Even if the invasions were botched and less troops were used, it will still fall, only later rather than sooner.

Why should that be the case? I can understand it if you said that the IJN player MUST always endevour to MAKE it fall, but if should not always be a faite accompli especially if the IJN player tries to use less troops or takes his sweet time or otherwise botch the invasion somehow. In game terms I think I know why Singapore's fate is seemingly written in stone but IMHO your statement does not accurately describe the historic situation.

[Raverdave]

ORIGINAL: TIMJOT

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

[Singapore will ALWAYS fall (and from the IJN players perspective...it must). Even if the invasions were botched and less troops were used, it will still fall, only later rather than sooner.

Why should that be the case? I can understand it if you said that the IJN player MUST always endevour to MAKE it fall, but if should not always be a faite accompli especially if the IJN player tries to use less troops or takes his sweet time or otherwise botch the invasion somehow. In game terms I think I know why Singapore's fate is seemingly written in stone but IMHO your statement does not accurately describe the historic situation.

Simply because even if the IJN player stuffs up his first invasion then he will still be able to amass, at a later date, a force big enough that cannot resisted. Even with a botched invasion, the prospect of reinforcing Singapore is poor.

[Luskan]

Nadi is probably next, but is a bit of a sideshow atm lets face it (although one of my picket subs spotted a surface combat force racing south from pearl!).

I have decided to try and up the ante, even though bad weather in china cost me lots and lots fo troops last turn (attacking in bad weather isn't a real good idea), and also foiled my rangoon snatch. Fortunately I'll just sit there for a whlie and amass Prep points and do it properly.

In malaya, annoyed that Raver is hinting he rescued the two big aussie units - the most important objective after taking singapore was to kill or drown those units (one to derby, one to darwin or perth or wyndham and suddenly the Oz coast isn't nearly as easy to steal).

Occaisionally they get used in the DEI - but the result would probably be the same.

Operations Phlegm, Pus and Snot are all still on standby, and I'm not sure how much longer I can keep those resources doing nothing. especially with a dramatically slow PI invasion, and many more tempting targets in the SRA. Palembang would be an excellent place to strike and secure some oil, as would tarakan (balikpapan seems a bit crowded atm).

Mop up operations in the dozens of little siland bases aronud the pi continue with my naval garrison forces storming ashore on a base or two every turn. All undefended so far.

My KB - cvs are all resting and refitting (although they didn't loose any aircraft since pearl) while my Prong 1 group has refuelled again, and is returning to their station (Raver is staying put in his ports and I'm not game enough to try another port attack just yet).

Darwin or perth? The question begs doesn't it? To take either, means that, like at Suva, he just can't afford to ignore it. It would be a suicide mission for any japs troops to try (because once they'd taken the place, the aussies would march day and night for months to wipe them out).

[Mr.Frag]

Why should that be the case? I can understand it if you said that the IJN player MUST always endevour to MAKE it fall, but if should not always be a faite accompli especially if the IJN player tries to use less troops or takes his sweet time or otherwise botch the invasion somehow. In game terms I think I know why Singapore's fate is seemingly written in stone but IMHO your statement does not accurately describe the historic situation.

The Brits simply do not have enough troops to prevent the fall.

A little math for you:

Japan divisions are 450+ assault. 3+ divisions are available.

All the Brits = 991 assault total but they are spread out.

[mogami]

Hi, I never send fewer then 4 div (sorry Mike) I did the math and want 2-1

[Mr.Frag]

Hi, I never send fewer then 4 div (sorry Mike) I did the math and want 2-1

And you wonder *why* I run? I know against you it is pointless to stay and die in place! [:'(]

[TIMJOT]

ORIGINAL: Raverdave


Simply because even if the IJN player stuffs up his first invasion then he will still be able to amass, at a later date, a force big enough that cannot resisted. Even with a botched invasion, the prospect of reinforcing Singapore is poor.

I thought as much, that very well may be true for the game but it doesnt jive historically. Why exactly is the prospect for reinforceing Singapore so poor? Particularly if invaded at a later date or less force is applied? Historically Singapore was not very hard to reinforce at all.

I have a suspicion it has something to do with the seemingly over effectiveness of LBA.

[TIMJOT]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

[The Brits simply do not have enough troops to prevent the fall.

A little math for you:

Japan divisions are 450+ assault. 3+ divisions are available.

All the Brits = 991 assault total but they are spread out.

Frag, Thanks for the reply. Is that 991 on the whole Map or is that just for Malaya? I know the 18th Div. arrives in early January. What about the 44th and 45th Indian Bgds? The 17th Indian Div? The 7th Arm. Bgd.?

[Mr.Frag]

ORIGINAL: TIMJOT

ORIGINAL: Raverdave


Simply because even if the IJN player stuffs up his first invasion then he will still be able to amass, at a later date, a force big enough that cannot resisted. Even with a botched invasion, the prospect of reinforcing Singapore is poor.

I thought as much, that very well may be true for the game but it doesnt jive historically. Why exactly is the prospect for reinforceing Singapore so poor? Particularly if invaded at a later date or less force is applied? Historically Singapore was not very hard to reinforce at all.

I have a suspicion it has something to do with the seemingly over effectiveness of LBA.

Are you being even remotely serious here?

Singapore??? Easy to reinforce??? From where??? With what???

Rangoon is tough enough to try and hold onto, forget about Singapore. I swear you need to look at a map. Singapore is at the very bottom, Rangoon at the very top ... the black circle is the range of a Nell, the red circle the extended range of a Nell.

[Raverdave]

ORIGINAL: TIMJOT

ORIGINAL: Raverdave


Simply because even if the IJN player stuffs up his first invasion then he will still be able to amass, at a later date, a force big enough that cannot resisted. Even with a botched invasion, the prospect of reinforcing Singapore is poor.

I thought as much, that very well may be true for the game but it doesnt jive historically. Why exactly is the prospect for reinforceing Singapore so poor? Particularly if invaded at a later date or less force is applied? Historically Singapore was not very hard to reinforce at all.

I have a suspicion it has something to do with the seemingly over effectiveness of LBA.

Well I have little trouble in sneaking out troops from Singapore, but I would really hate to get a TF full of troops caught by a CV TF sailing into the Straits of Malaca. The IJN player has very good search aircraft based near and so it can be easy to detect shipping coming in, then simply despatch a CV. The IJN player rules the waves east, south and north of Malaya, and if ha can be bothered sailing into the Indian ocean, he would also rule those waves as well.

[Luskan]

It isn't impossible to load up loads of troops of india, and get them into kuala lumpur (assuming you have spent the pp points for them, and packed about 30 fighters into kuala lumpur before hand).

A good jap player will bomb you, but most of your troops would get ashore (singapore might be easier, but is a few hexes closer to the enemy that are probably based in brunei by the time your transports arrive). Of course, you will loose many transports doing this - and loose even more transports when the IJN arrives and catched you unlaoding, but by then you can have some extra troops on malaya.

The problem is that it took so long to ship them in, that a: kuala lumpur might have fallen already, b: the jap player is just going to let you starve because supplies are already running low and c: laugh because malaya is well and truly within his zone of control, while india is empty and asking for the taking.

Is even worse when an allied player tried to send the hermes, revenge, exeter etc. in with the transports to give them some cover. The result (apart from the hermes being so slow and the revenge with such a small fuel tank slowing them down further) is that your transports arrive later (worse) and you pit the hermes up against some oscars, sallys, nells and betties. How many allied fanboys here think that the Hermes should survive??????

Best use for the allied indian ocean forces is to stay put and defend - the jap player can never ignore you, but won't risk going so far away from the SRA for months and months. By then, you'll have lots of fighters there to mix it up if he comes after your ships.

Those indian units are much better used at Rangoon or Moulmein if you're fast. You can hold the jap division (but probably not if the jap general sent both) down there for a while with a very long supply line and attrite.

My aims when I play the allies:
1. slow the taking of the SRA down as much as possible/make the jap bleed early on. If I did indeed hit the Taiyo hard in my game vs Mog - leaving my units in place in malaya has already paid off (serves him right for landing in such a daring manner!).
2. Allied naval units will not survive in the SRA at the beginning. You need to evac them to a safe port (away from the jap betties at kendari, brunei and davao). Then you can condense your forces into a nice surface combat group or two and have a bit of a smack the way raver did. Much more effective than trying to stand and fight in little isolated tfs in jap air cover. I tried to stand and fight vs mogami and he's been btich slapping my transports and surface combatants left right and centre.
3. Stuff troops and planes and ships into the bases from sydney to noumea to suva to pearl to protect that flank at all costs.
4. Maybe - just maybe, you can get a few extras into PNG before the shit hits the fan. Whoever posted about the japs preferring the us attacking on a narrow front was probably right.

[TIMJOT]

Frag,

Actually I am being very serious in regards to the REAL situation historically.

Historically there were a total of 10 reinforcement convoys sent to Singapore. How many did the Japanese stop from getting through? ZERO!

Of those convoys. How many ships did they manage to sink? ONE! The AP Empress of Asia

What did they bring in? One full Division, 2 full Bgds, 3 AA Regts, equiv of 3 fighter squadrons, and about another 2 Bgds worth of replacements. Not to mention tons of supplies and munitions.

Dont know about how it is in the game, but I can guess from the fact that I have yet see Singapore last much past mid January in any of the AARs.

Doesnt it seem a more than a little odd that what is considered one of the fastest campaigns in history (One that even took the Japs by surprise) consistently take less than half the time of the almost unbelievable historic pace?

[mogami]

Hi, Not one of the AAR's have troops coming into Singapore. Most of them have the troops leaving. This is what speeds up the fall of Singapore. I'm holding as the Allies but we are not posting the AAR from that game. (AdmDadman is Japan)

[Raverdave]

And I will also point out that I still own Singapore ! [:)]








..........or at least still do as of the 8th of Jan'42[8|] I am confident of holding it until at least the 15th of Jn, then it is all in the lap of the Gods.