Starting to regret buying 'Desert Fox'

color · Post by **color** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 8:59 pm

I have recently been trying to start the 'Desert Fox' MC, but now I am mighty frustrated by it.

First I start the 'El Agheila' scenario and take all objectives and clean the map of enemy units. My reward is a draw (7200 vs 2400) and Rommel is mighy angry (why - I did as he asked me too, cleared the city, wasn't that the most important? ).
Seems like I lost just a little too much to get a minor victory. The game seems to be very sensitive to player losses.
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Oh, well I start up again, this time the 'catch the train', I manage a minor victory only to be greeted by the yugoslavian player bug. Shit - it was all for nothing, my save files are corrupt.
<img src="eek.gif" border="0">

So I restart the 'catch the train', this time backing up the game files to try to avoid the bug. This time I try to gain a decisive victory so I destroy all enemy units, trains, supplies and HQ tents, even those ugly matildas and 40mm AAs. Hell, I even take all the VP hexes, even though the scenario says they does not matter. And I have light losses - 2 tanks, 1 halftrack, 1 armored car - 3 of them to immobilization - and one assault squad.
At the end I exit all units off the map, even the crews of the immobilized units.
What is my reward?
320 vs 1000 VPs
Minor defeat.
<img src="mad.gif" border="0">

So what the hell do I have to do win this #%$@ scenario and continue without encountering a bug???

I am having a hard time finding any energy to start over again.

I was joyfully considering buying 'The lost victories' but if it will just be more of what I have experienced until now, I won't waste my money of buying a game that only makes me feel frustrated.

Color

Color.... Unhappy that is fine please watch your words in your post!

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: David Heath ]</p>

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 9:08 pm

Understand your frustration, but on this forum we try to avoid using language your mom would not approve of.
Many of the problems you mention have been addressed on the website. If you download the latest patch to the MC, assuming you haven't already, some problems will ameliorate themselves.
More importantly, the key to the "Train" scenario is EXITING YOUR UNITS IN A TIMELY MANNER; as in any raid-type mission, speed on target and egress are vital components.
Based on your score, I would guess that you left some troops behind?-bad juju.
The Yugoslav bug may well be fixed in V7 due out this weekend.

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 9:11 pm

Sorry, my bad; reread your post. You claim to have exited all your units. IN that case I would look at the timescale. Drive in, hit your objective and drive out ASAP.
Had the same problem the first time I played; redid it concentrating on suppressing rather than destroying Brit units and knocking out objectives. Got a decisive.

AlvinS · Post by **AlvinS** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 9:34 pm

Color

I have had the Yugoslavia bug myself. Since I have restarted the game I have been launching from then mech.exe and so far have not had any trouble. There is also a beta patch available if you email Paul Vebber directly.

As far as the victory level, Grumbel is right on target with his advice. I was finally able to get a decisive on "Catch that Train" by use of smoke, suppression, and speed.

I feel your pain. It is frustrating to take all objectives with light losses only to get a draw. On the bright side it is causing me to improve my strategy a great deal. I feel that I am a much better player as a result of the difficulty of the mega campaign.

Regards

Alvin

color · Post by **color** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 9:43 pm

Thanks for the tips, Grumble.

About the patch. I have the 6.1 patch to WaW.
I have not been able to encounter any patch for the Desert Fox MC on the matrix general site, nor the Desert Fix site. If there is one, where can I find it??

Color

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 10:01 pm

The patch for the Yugo bug is not on any website. You must email Paul Vebber (moderator of this fourm) directly and ask for it.

I have had scenarios crash after much effort to fight my way for many hours. In those cases, I don't feel any regret in setting my preferences to "arcade level" (my all 250, other all 30) and play until I am where I was before. It goes quickly this way.

David Heath · Post by **David Heath** » Fri Aug 31, 2001 10:47 pm

We are getting ready to release the patch which all add a few features to the Campaigns and fix we hope the last of the mega campaign bugs. Expect it soon.

color · Post by **color** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 12:01 am

Well, using the advices you guys have given me I tried again.

Moved in fast, destroyed the whole train, the two supply depots, the HQ tent and various allied units. Extensive use of smoke to cover flanks and overrun inf positions with tanks once they were pinned. The enemy tank counterattack was crushed.
By turn 8 everyone was off the map.
Losses 1 tank (Pz I), and 3 halftracks.

Result:

Player 653
Computer 1806

DRAW
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Anyone care to comment? What I am doing wrong?
Is there something I am NOT supposed to destroy, some hex I do NOT have to pass over?
Buy, this scenario has me going crazy, beats me how I managed to get a minor victory performing much poorer than this time.

I have a end turn 4 save game where I have destroyed my objectives and are about to withdraw if anyone wants to have a look I can send it.

Talking about end turn savegames. Did anyone notice that if you same the game at the end of the turn and the restart it, you can move the units again, and moved units lose their moved status.

Color

Corwin · Post by **Corwin** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 1:09 am

This almost sounds like the units aren't exiting. Are you sure you leave them on the exit hex and that they are gone the next turn?

Just a thought.

color · Post by **color** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 1:49 am

Corwin,

Yes, it seems that they were exited of the map.
Physically (well ... graphically) they disappear from the screen, the log has a message saying " GE XXX unit has exited the map"

The last turns, 9-12, went by without my intervenion. As I do not have any more units left on the battlefield, the game recognizes it and just passes my order phase, continuing with the british turn.

Strange situation I got.

Color

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 2:36 am

Here's something to think about. If you exit ALL of your units and the enemy still has some left, what's to stop the enemy from retaking the objectives, turn 8 ending or not?

john g · Post by **john g** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 2:51 am

Originally posted by Charles_22:
Here's something to think about. If you exit ALL of your units and the enemy still has some left, what's to stop the enemy from retaking the objectives, turn 8 ending or not?

When I played to a decisive, I only took two victory hexes, killing the mobile units anywhere near to them. I didn't see any British units move back that way. The big points are for killing the train and then exiting your units. The enemy units and vic hexes I took couldn't have added up to over a 1000 points, Killing the train and exiting units added up to about 12000.
thanks, John.

john g · Post by **john g** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 3:04 am

Originally posted by Color:
Well, using the advices you guys have given me I tried again.

Moved in fast, destroyed the whole train, the two supply depots, the HQ tent and various allied units. Extensive use of smoke to cover flanks and overrun inf positions with tanks once they were pinned. The enemy tank counterattack was crushed.
By turn 8 everyone was off the map.
Losses 1 tank (Pz I), and 3 halftracks.

Result:

Player 653
Computer 1806

DRAW
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Anyone care to comment? What I am doing wrong?
Is there something I am NOT supposed to destroy, some hex I do NOT have to pass over?
Buy, this scenario has me going crazy, beats me how I managed to get a minor victory performing much poorer than this time.

I have a end turn 4 save game where I have destroyed my objectives and are about to withdraw if anyone wants to have a look I can send it.

Talking about end turn savegames. Did anyone notice that if you same the game at the end of the turn and the restart it, you can move the units again, and moved units lose their moved status.

Color

What are your preferences set at? When I play, it is 200+ points per tank to exit them. If you are exiting the entire force your score should be in the 10000 pt range. When units are exiting at the end of the turn what point value is it giving for each unit?

I've run this scenario enough times to know how it plays, if you want to send me the save to look at, I'll look and comment. Send me the save and a copy of your steel.prf and I'll try to find out what is wrong.
thanks, John.

thanks, John.

Alexandra · Post by **Alexandra** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 5:45 am

I think I see Color's problem. Color, how are you exiting your units? Are you exiting them through the retreat hex, or an exit VH? You tend to only get the 'Unit XXX has left the map' verbage when exiting via a retreat hex. This happens as soon as your unit enters the retreat hex and is not worth any points. Units on an exit VH leave at the end of your turn, and the display at the bottom of the screen, where combat results are displayed, shows the points earned for each. I also don't think that you get the exit message on an exit VH.

Alex

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 9:31 am

David, will the patch be part of the Lost Victories disk? Thanks

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 9:40 am

color · Post by **color** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:39 pm

Thanks for the tip Alexandra.

You were right, I tried moving the units on top of the German Exit VP hex and at the end of the turn they were removed from the map with a message similar to "GE XXX unit was removed from the map for YYY points".

I though I had to leave the map in the retreat hex (which takes 2-3 turns to reach), I did not understand the mechanism of exiting the units from the map leaving them on a hex in the middle of the map.

Can't remember seeing this explained somewhere. Maybe it should have been explained in the scenario briefing as it sure confused me.

Thanks for the help everyone!
<img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Color

Dan Greaves · Post by **Dan Greaves** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 10:33 pm

I had that exact problem, there is nothing about how to use the exit hex and the retreat hex is easily mistaken for it. I found this very frustrating. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

john g · Post by **john g** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 12:03 am

Originally posted by Dan Death:
I had that exact problem, there is nothing about how to use the exit hex and the retreat hex is easily mistaken for it. I found this very frustrating. <img src="mad.gif" border="0">

I remember this back from the introduction of v4, here is an email Paul V sent me back in 8/31/00:

Paul's reply:
Exit victory hexes, victory hexes that give points each turn they are held, and victory hexes that give their points to the first to occupy will be there. The "units within a radius" one won't be.

--------------------------------------------------

My request that perhaps helped cause your problem:
If I could put in a request for some creeping featurism, could you check with the programmers and see if it is possible to either:

Allow units to leave the map via designated exit hexes, where they will count for victory points.

Or, if it possible add victory hexes that count for points depending on how many units are within a settable radius.
--------------------------------------------------

The explanation of exit vic hexes was around when v4 came out. Somehow I guess it got lost since then, and not enough scenarions use it for you to be used to it.
thanks, John.

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Tue Sep 04, 2001 3:49 am

I am familiar with the retreat hex mechanism since I have played scenarios where it has been used. I never questioned where to exit in "Catch the Train" because it was obvious to me but I can see where others who have never used the exit hex could have problems. I had the "game crash after the first battle" problem and had to play it over 5-6 times before I was able to obtain a fix for it and still I am glad I got this campaign. I'm now rolling ahead and its a blast!