Marder meaning?

Truckeye · Post by **Truckeye** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 8:37 pm

when i was a kid and first started getting interested in armor and thought a Mark IV was the english translation for Panzer IV until the rays of understanding hit me and i realized the name/model differences. i figured out the nashorn and brumbar as well. but ive seen the marder also called the martin, and never quite figured that one out. is that a designers name (such as the ferdinand), factory, or word meaning something obvious that ive not found?

while im being curious, are the german words for tiger, panther, puma, elephant, the same? im guessing yes since the nashorn, brumbar, hetzer all keep their german names. (yes i know elephant is spelled different in german)

anyone know if the germans had names for the panzers 1-4? or why they werent named?

if brumbar is grizzly bear, isnt that animal native to the USA? seems naming a vehicle after an enemys fierce animal seems odd. i dont see the soviets naming an aircraft the bald eagle in the cold war <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

just a line of curious questions for anyone who might know. thanks

Christopher · Post by **Christopher** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 9:13 pm

I have no idea about the names for the Panzer I-IV...
I think Marder means marten in english. Maybe there's a connection.
And tiger, panther, puma and elephant are exactly the same in german, yep.
But Brummbär isn't a grizzly bear, as much as I know. It's just a childish word for a bear in general or for a person that is usually in a bad mood. <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Maybe they should have called it B(r)ummbär (boom-bear)...lol

Jasper · Post by **Jasper** » Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:03 pm

I only know that German name after their tanks by animals. The British tried to name after their tanks with C...like Crusade, Cromwell, etc.

SAMWolf · Post by **SAMWolf** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 12:32 am

Originally posted by Truckeye:
when i was a kid and first started getting interested in armor and thought a Mark IV was the english translation for Panzer IV until the rays of understanding hit me and i realized the name/model differences. i figured out the nashorn and brumbar as well. but ive seen the marder also called the martin, and never quite figured that one out. is that a designers name (such as the ferdinand), factory, or word meaning something obvious that ive not found?

while im being curious, are the german words for tiger, panther, puma, elephant, the same? im guessing yes since the nashorn, brumbar, hetzer all keep their german names. (yes i know elephant is spelled different in german)

anyone know if the germans had names for the panzers 1-4? or why they werent named?

if brumbar is grizzly bear, isnt that animal native to the USA? seems naming a vehicle after an enemys fierce animal seems odd. i dont see the soviets naming an aircraft the bald eagle in the cold war <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

just a line of curious questions for anyone who might know. thanks

The Marder (Marten) is a small North American predator, member of the weasel family.

As far as I know the Panzer I thru IV were never given names. The Tiger was the first "named" panzer.

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 12:51 am

"Marders" were a problem where I lived in Germany. During the winter they would come down out of the hills behind my town and occasionally sneak under people's cars. (The relative warmth of the engines attracts them.) They love to chew on wiring harnesses, so much so that BMW markets a custom anti-Marder wiring guard.
"Hetzer" btw means, "ambusher" or "harasser".

Truckeye · Post by **Truckeye** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 5:12 am

thanks guys, i never heard of the animal marten. sounds like its small, pesky, and a hinderance. kinda like the light weight tank destroyers. makes perfect sence. thanks especially for the picture!!

bradmbrown · Post by **bradmbrown** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 8:55 am

A Grizzly is a brown bear. A LARGE North American Opportunistic Carnivore, a member of the bear family

Funny a tank should be named after an animal whose favorite food is machte zart touristin.

(I am not affrait off za bears, nien, I haff ziss little bottle off bear spray here, zee? I giff za bear a little viff off it on his schnoz, unt he vill run avay like zot, zee?
He ist VAT BIGNESS? Accch, nien, nien bear ist zieben hunnert kilos. Impozzible...
blah blah ...In chermany ve haff better roadss zen ziss.
blah blah ...Ze fuud ist terrible here.
Stop buddering me.
Vot you say?
VAT?
Over where?
Got In Himmel ein blitzen brumbar!!
Eyee. Iyee.
Crunch.)

[ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: General Amnesty ]</p>

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 9:25 am

I always thought that the Hezter was translated to "baiter". I guess that is similar to ambusher.

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 11:50 am

Well very interesting here...
I have looked for the translation of Focke-wulf
but nothing appeared from the vocabulary...
So I surrendered to the hypothesis it's a producer trademark..

And for my first time I know what the Hetzer means..

Christopher · Post by **Christopher** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 1:13 pm

Originally posted by General Amnesty:
Funny a tank should be named after an animal whose favorite food is machte zart touristin.

(I am not affrait off za bears, nien, I haff ziss little bottle off bear spray here, zee? I giff za bear a little viff off it on his schnoz, unt he vill run avay like zot, zee?
He ist VAT BIGNESS? Accch, nien, nien bear ist zieben hunnert kilos. Impozzible...
blah blah ...In chermany ve haff better roadss zen ziss.
blah blah ...Ze fuud ist terrible here.
Stop buddering me.
Vot you say?
VAT?
Over where?
Got In Himmel ein blitzen brumbar!!
Eyee. Iyee.
Crunch.)

lmao

bradmbrown · Post by **bradmbrown** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 2:15 pm

Seriously.

Grizzly Bears aren't people-eaters.
If the bear knows you are there, if you do not sneak up on him and suprise him, IF he knows you are a human and not a moose or something (they are quite intelligent, it is difficult to mistake a tiny perfumed human for a huge stinky moose) he won't try to eat you. I sat a hundred yards from a sow and her cub who were fishing. They knew I was there and they kept fishing. For about an hour. I ate my sandwiches and had a coffee and went away. The bears didn't even say good bye.

Black bears.

Different. If a black bear hits you, he plans on eating you. Always. Black bears are Satanic Forest Swine.
We spend millions in tourist country to humanely trap and transport them. In the north country, where there are few tourists, black bears are bullet magnets, highly valued as rugs and dog food.
Sure, we have all heard some people eat bear. I haven't actually SEEN anyone eating bear. Just heard of it. I will believe it when I see it.

Greybear · Post by **Greybear** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 4:01 pm

Originally posted by General Amnesty:
Seriously.

Grizzly Bears aren't people-eaters.
If the bear knows you are there, ..........................

Black bears.

Different. If a black bear hits you, he plans on eating you. Always. Black bears are Satanic Forest Swine.
We spend millions in tourist country to humanely trap and transport them. In the north country, where there are few tourists, black bears are bullet magnets, highly valued as rugs and dog food.
Sure, we have all heard some people eat bear. I haven't actually SEEN anyone eating bear. Just heard of it. I will believe it when I see it.

General, If I am to believe my NRA propaganda (before anyone gets started, I am a Life Member), what have you Canadians left to shoot those bullets with. Also, if you were from around here, you would know better than to go to out state game and fish for any thing factual. (his black bear pic was borrowed from AGFC) Most of those folks were hired when Bill was Governor. Do you know that our local game warden is named "Bubba"? If he has a last name, I never heard it.

Truckeye · Post by **Truckeye** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 5:24 pm

this is better than the nature channel <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Jasper · Post by **Jasper** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 8:28 pm

Originally posted by General Amnesty:
Seriously.

Grizzly Bears aren't people-eaters.
If the bear knows you are there, if you do not sneak up on him and suprise him, IF he knows you are a human and not a moose or something (they are quite intelligent, it is difficult to mistake a tiny perfumed human for a huge stinky moose) he won't try to eat you. I sat a hundred yards from a sow and her cub who were fishing. They knew I was there and they kept fishing. For about an hour. I ate my sandwiches and had a coffee and went away. The bears didn't even say good bye.

Black bears.

Different. If a black bear hits you, he plans on eating you. Always. Black bears are Satanic Forest Swine.
We spend millions in tourist country to humanely trap and transport them. In the north country, where there are few tourists, black bears are bullet magnets, highly valued as rugs and dog food.
Sure, we have all heard some people eat bear. I haven't actually SEEN anyone eating bear. Just heard of it. I will believe it when I see it.

The chinese do eat bear but not the whole part only their palm. They claimed that the bear palm if double or triple boil will improve your tintky little "brother". It make him stronger.
<img src="frown.gif" border="0"> Bloody communist.....

Christian Blex · Post by **Christian Blex** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 8:59 pm

The german planes in WW2 were given the manufactury name follewed by an officially given number. Later in the war some planes were sometimes named after their designers (e.g. the Ta 152, the development of the Focke-Wulf Fw 190, named after Kurt Tank. In addition some late-war developments were also given animal-names (the (Messerschmidt ) Me 262 Sturmvogel (don't know the English word, even do not know anything about this bird), the Heinkel He 162 Salamander (just the same in English), the Dornier Do 335 Pfeil (arrow), or the Messerschmidt Me 163 Komet ( Engl.: comet, well the name was well deserved, as more planes were lost, when the Komet hit the ground and explodet, than were shot down).
Hope this helps.
Christian

OKW-73 · Post by **OKW-73** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 9:14 pm

Good resource for panzer names: http://www.panzerdiesel.com/eng/e2b0.php

bradmbrown · Post by **bradmbrown** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 10:26 pm

you would know better than to go to out state game and fish for any thing factual. (his black bear pic was borrowed from AGFC)

I am not sure what you mean by that. I am not sure YOU are sure what you mean by that.

Restate it?

I typed the words '+"black bear" +jpg' in yahoo search engine and used the first black and white picture of a black bear I saw. I didn't care who made the picture. I wouldn't have cared if Billy-Bob McIncest from Upper Bunghole, had made the picture. It was black and white (low bandwidth) and it looks like a bear!

We don't use automatic rifles to hunt with in Canada. Except for Quebec. They are crazy there.

In Canada most culpable homocide is done with fists, boots, beater-sticks and knives.

If you are a member of NRA, so what? What does that mean, that you own an automatic rifle? 20 of them? Anti tank guns? What?

Don't believe the propoganda. No one who disagrees with automatic rifle and handgun registration registration up here will register.

A shovel is as easy to use here as it is in your country. The mounties haven't taken away our wheels yet, or our shovels and we got 3.9 million square miles of dirt where any Canuck who owns them can bury his antitank guns and assault rifles. Never know when ya might need your antitank guns, maybe next year be good elk Season????

Never be proud to have guys named "Bubba" around you.

My grampa taught me how you can recognize a Yankee deer hunter. This is truth. I won't tell the story of when he proved it. Yankee deer hunters wear Camo (!)

I spit my vodka up first time I ever seen that. And I have seen it a hundred times since.

There are 7 million legal long guns in this country. Who knows how many illegal types.

There aren't yet thirty million of us. 10 million of us are children. YOU do the math.

<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
Don't believe all the propoganda you are shovelled.
<img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Don't you worry, Yank. We ain't ready to get butt____ed by wild boars yet.
<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: General Amnesty ]</p>

murx · Post by **murx** » Sun Sep 02, 2001 10:39 pm

I think a better decription for Hetzer is not 'ambusher' or 'harrasser' but it's mor like the folk who rives the game in a hunt. They don't really kill the game but drive it to the 'real' hunters.

'Sturmvogel' is from the 'Sturmkraehe' or storm crow - a bad weather bird <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> and I guess that what the 'Sturmvogel' delivered ....

murx

Tom Terror · Post by **Tom Terror** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 3:28 pm

Brummbär is a play down expression of bear for kids. It just means the "Growl-bear" or growling bear. So what the name implies is simply a huge, slow moving thing that makes a terrific noise when opening its mouth. Name quite fits, doesn't it?
(For the Nature Channel Community: I know bears can actually be pretty fast...)

Hetzer is the noun of the german word hetzen which means to hunt or to bait. (Meaning the same like to set dogs on a bear)

Hope that helps

TomT

Greybear · Post by **Greybear** » Mon Sep 03, 2001 3:57 pm

Originally posted by General Amnesty:

I am not sure what you mean by that. I am not sure YOU are sure what you mean by that.

Restate it?

I typed the words '+"black bear" +jpg' in yahoo search engine and used the first black and white picture of a black bear I saw. I didn't care who made the picture. I wouldn't have cared if Billy-Bob McIncest from Upper Bunghole, had made the picture. It was black and white (low bandwidth) and it looks like a bear!

We don't use automatic rifles to hunt with in Canada. Except for Quebec. They are crazy there.

In Canada most culpable homocide is done with fists, boots, beater-sticks and knives.

If you are a member of NRA, so what? What does that mean, that you own an automatic rifle? 20 of them? Anti tank guns? What?

Don't believe the propoganda. No one who disagrees with automatic rifle and handgun registration registration up here will register.

A shovel is as easy to use here as it is in your country. The mounties haven't taken away our wheels yet, or our shovels and we got 3.9 million square miles of dirt where any Canuck who owns them can bury his antitank guns and assault rifles. Never know when ya might need your antitank guns, maybe next year be good elk Season????

Never be proud to have guys named "Bubba" around you.

My grampa taught me how you can recognize a Yankee deer hunter. This is truth. I won't tell the story of when he proved it. Yankee deer hunters wear Camo (!)

I spit my vodka up first time I ever seen that. And I have seen it a hundred times since.

There are 7 million legal long guns in this country. Who knows how many illegal types.

There aren't yet thirty million of us. 10 million of us are children. YOU do the math.

<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">
Don't believe all the propoganda you are shovelled.
<img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Don't you worry, Yank. We ain't ready to get butt____ed by wild boars yet.
<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: General Amnesty ]

General,
It seems that I am honor bound to defend my native state from your northern aggression ( and BC is WAY north isn’t it).
1) We flatlanders (to differentiate from the other major southern categories: hillbillies, peckerwoods, and cityboys) spells Billy-Bob, Billy Bob. People with hyphens in their names are not allowed in rural southern US.
2)You must have confused the website reference with LOWER Bunghole ( if I remember correctly is just west of Delite). Upper Bunghole is somewhere north of here.
3) Automatic rifles haven’t been used in years since AGFC started enforcing daily limits. The only exceptions are for cityboys who can’t hit any thing and hog hunting.
4)What have you got against Quebecs?
5)As for my NRA membership, I own 1 semiautomatic rifle, a Ruger 10/22, but I own about 15 pistols. No artillery, sorry. I knew a guy in Kentucky that had a M1897 field gun.
6)I guess you don’t have the equivalent of the ATF up there. If the ATF gets an anonymous tip that you buried something, they might dig your barn up with a backhoe. Heard about it happening about 10 years ago.
7)Arkansas elk permits go for about $15,000 to $60,000 each, no guarantee, no centerfire calibers over .5 inch (no AT guns).
8) I have never meet a Bubba I didn’t like.
9) About the Camo, you are right, only Yankees or Cityboys wear camo. Wait a minute, YOU WASN’T REFERRING TO ME AS A YANKEE, WERE YOU?
10)I don’t believe all the propaganda, but Charlton Heston wouldn’t lie.
11)YOU DID CALL ME A YANK, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO GET INSULTING.