aircraft factories

[kellyc]

Hello again,

I was curious to hear any tips or suggestions regarding US aircraft factories. I've only done some slight changes to my production of aircraft (got rid of some older a/c construction for some slightly better ones) but I'm alittle weary of changing too much around for fear of throwing it all off.
BTW I did a search in this forum but didn't see anything along the lines I need.
Thanks in advance.
Sincerely
Kelly

[kellyc]

no takers?


Kelly

[CynicAl]

It's just that it's really hard to screw up US aircraft production. There's really nothing you can do about dive and torpedo bomber production, or Navy/Marine fighters for the first year or so of the war. Same for heavy bombers and patrol types. You have a little more freedom with Army fighters and light/medium bombers, but even so your choices are limited - and there's generally not that much to choose from between them. If you want (and if you don't mind ignoring unmodeled historical realities), you can standardize all Army fighter production to P-40s, and tactical bombers to B-25s, but it's not that critical either way. If you really want to be gamey, you can change over British production to the US types, but it still doesn't gain you all that much (particularly in the latest versions of PacWar, in which non-US Allied units can't use most USAAF aircraft types). Later - say, by 1944 - you have more options, especially with fighters... but by then all the types available to you are "pretty good," to say the very least. Which is to say, they're better than most of the opposition you're likely to be facing - the improved Japanese types appear very late in the game, and in very limited numbers.

[Denniss]

It's not gamey to use Avengers and Wildcats/Corsairs on british carriers as they operated them .
And they are far better than the old/slow british stuff .
But Land based air should operate the historical planes

[Capt. Harlock]

BTW I did a search in this forum but didn't see anything along the lines I need.

I'm surprised: I posted the comments below shortly after Version 3.2 was released. Probabbly it was one of the many things lost when the forum was hacked and brought down a few months ago. Anyway, here goes:

First and foremost, be aware that there are serious limits on which squadrons can fly which aircraft. US Army squadrons are almost the only ones that can be "manually" converted to US Army aircraft, which are generally the best choices. It is reasonable that USMC squadrons fly mostly Navy aircraft. BUT--the British, Dutch, and Australian squadrons can normally fly only "Commonwealth" or USN aircraft. This is something I strongly disagree with: P-40's and B-25's could be found at nearly every Allied airfield that could handle them during WWII. And if a land-base squadron can fly the F4F Wildcat, why shouldn't it fly the Warhawk? Still, the limits are hard-coded into the game, so the Allied player will have to produce some Commonwealth planes to keep his non-US squadrons going. There are, however, some work-arounds with upgrades in a game against the AI..

Speaking of production, the number of factories on the Allied side at the start of the game has been cut down significantly. There are only five active fighter plants on Dec. 7--and one of those is permanently stuck making the worthless Fulmar II, so effectively there are only four. Luckily, more factories quickly come “on-line” as more aircraft types become available.

Fighters: The best Allied fighter at the beginning of the game is, as before, the P-40 Warhawk. Happily, there is a way to get Australian squadrons equipped with it: although you cannot do it "manually", the computer will give you the option to upgrade to the P-40 from the Wirraway. There is now a surprising second-best fighter-bomber, though: the P-39 Airacobra. It has fair maneuverability, good firepower, it’s durable, it has double the bomb-load of the P-40, and it’s cheap. Admittedly, it's no match for the A6M2 "Zero", but then, none of the early Allied fighters beside the P-40 are. The ideal place to use it would be in the China-Burma-India area, where the opposing fighters are largely inferior IJAAF models, and there are Japanese ground troops to be pummeled. But alas, the UK fighter squadrons won't accept it. The F4F Wildcat is a reasonable fighter for defense, but its range of only two hexes cripples its offensive ability. (And makes it inconvenient to transfer from base to base, too.) On the Commonwealth side, the best early fighter is the Hurricane II, but it's a bear to produce in quantity. It’s a good idea to convert some of the UK squadrons to Wildcats. And definitely convert all of the RN carrier squadrons.

There is one other fighter worth mentioning: the Hawk 75A. It’s too expensive to produce, but its range of four hexes allows it to escort most medium bomber raids. The Allies start with one Dutch squadron of Hawk75A’s - use them wisely. (New comment: Jeremy Pritchard later changed his mind and believes that it should be allowed to produce the Hawk 75A. Those of you with editors might want to change the plane cost to simething like 5 or 6.)

At the start of the game, dive-bombers have become a no-brainer: you want the SBD Dauntless. The SB2U Vindactor has the same bomb-load and range, but Jeremy really doesn’t want you to make any more than already exist: the cost rating has gone up to 99. Also, against enemy fighters the Vindactor gets slaughtered. Starting around October 1942, the Vengeance becomes available, and it's a fine choice for land-based squadrons because of its impressive range of five hexes. (But be careful about attacking IJN carriers without fighter escort.) Lastly, the SB2C Helldiver has now become a super-plane: its bombload is double the Dauntless, and its manuever and cannon ratings allow it to defend itself well against many of the Japanese fighters.

Torpedo bombers: There is no American torpedo-bomber factory at the start of the game, so forget about making Devastators. When it comes on-line, however, the Avenger is superior to anything the British have. Start the factory in England on what’s available (the Albacore), but switch it over to Avengers as soon as you can.

Medium bombers or "tac-bombers" is where the Allied player has to make some tough decisions. The B-25 Mitchell and B-26 Marauder are now very close: same bomb-load, range, cost, and durability, and not far apart in maneuver and cannon rating. Be aware that the program favors the B-25, but the Mitchell isn't available for several turns. If you leave everything up to the computer, the B-26’s will be phased out, but at a cost of a month’s production. The A-20 Havoc used to be a favorite because of its excellent performance against enemy fighters, but the bomb-load has been cut to only 12. My advice is to keep the Marauder factory making B-26's, but convert the Havoc factory to B-25's when they come on-line.

On the Commonwealth side, all of the early medium bombers have serious disadvantages. (And all of them are bloody expensive.) The Blenheim IV is a piece of junk, but it can be upgraded later into the Vengeance dive-bomber. The Hudson has good range, but the bomb-load is low, and they often are butchered by enemy fighters since there are no escorts that can fly as far as they can. The Beaufort has the advantage that it can use torpedoes and does not have to be set to Naval Interdiction, but the bomb-load is still small, and the range has been cut to only three hexes. My choice would be to wait for the Wellington (mid-February 1942) and then produce it exclusively until the Beaufighter becomes available (End of 1942). The Wellington's low bomb-load is compensated for by its range: targets four hexes away will receive more damage than those at the eight-hex maximum. It’s actually worth keeping a squadron of Martin 139’s around for a while for their bomb capacity: they work nicely against Japanese LCU’s if there are no enemy fighters present. But don’t set any factories to make them; their cost is 99.

Heavy Bombers: The B-17 is now maddeningly limited in its production. Use them sparingly, because you can’t replace heavy losses. Definitely, the B-24 should be produced with both factories when it becomes available. When the B-29's finally show up, set all heavy-bomber factories to produce them: it’s now cheaper than the B-24. Then, tell your opponent to kiss Japan good-bye!

[strawbuk]

I think I said somewhere else that the real joy is that you can give CW/Brits the P-47 - which is handy...

The warning is that while messing with allies is usually ok BEWARE THE WELLY FACTOR - yes you might like the range 7 Wellington, but if you switch a factory (one that builds tac bombers) to build it, the factory will then later auto switch to B-24s. Once on B-24s it cannot be put to anything but 24s and 17s - so you may end up with a tac bomber shortage - but a huge stockpile of B-24s

Equally, if you change brit tac bomber wings to wellies they appear to upgrade to B-24s - very nice but a bit harsh in that you end up with more B-24 sqns (and then b-29s...) then ever flew anywhere, ever.

Japanese factories - other than perhaps switching the G3 Factories to G4Ms asap BE VERY CAREFUL - again I have not got the upgrade paths (anyone?) but I seriously messed up late war air prodcution eg no p1Ys, by fiddling and anyway you need to think about keeping some M2 zeros in play to escort your cherry blossom carrying G4Ms.

[kellyc]

Thanks much for the input [:)]
[&o]
Sincerely
Kelly

[Denniss]

I like the Nell as it's a perfectly match to the Zero's range - too often my Betties tried to attack heavily CAPped TF/bases with huge losses to my side

[returnfire]

ORIGINAL: Capt. Harlock
Fighters: The best Allied fighter at the beginning of the game is, as before, the P-40 Warhawk. Happily, there is a way to get Australian squadrons equipped with it: although you cannot do it "manually", the computer will give you the option to upgrade to the P-40 from the Wirraway.

One "gamey" tactic I tested: consider changing the British (and even the USMC) airgroups to the Wirraway. If you're playing against the AI, you'll usually be given the option to upgrade sooner or later. (I said usually because this method sometimes fails for USMC airgroups-- and Wirraway is not a very good plane-- in that case, I would wait for the F4U-1 Corsair to come out).

And definitely convert all of the RN carrier squadrons.

Actually, I tried two "gamey" things with carrier squadrons and found out that they worked quite well:


1) If playing Campaign 41: When you get the early RN carriers (Hermes, Indomitable, Formidable), remove the Albacores from these carriers and give them TBD's. Then, re-equip your US carriers with Albacores until the TBF Avenger comes into production.

Result: In one game, I won the battle of Coral Sea without losing any carriers. This is what happened:

My carrier fleet (5 CVs, 10 BB's-- yes, I turned historical first turn off [:'(]) was sent to Lae to support the ground troops there. Before it moved away from Port Moresby, though, it was met by the Japanese carrier TF. Now here's the funny part. The enemy fleet conducted an air strike against Milne Bay-- and my 3 P-40 squadrons defended it adequately. Then, there were a few long-range strikes (with A6M2 fighters and no bombers) against nearby bases-- big mistake, since "Zeroes" are fragile. Finally, the enemy TF chased my TF all the way back to Port Moresby. Oops, another big mistake. My Wirraways off Port Moresby (they are waiting to be upgraded) acted as CAP (should I say decoys?) over my carrier fleet [;)].

Then my TF conducted a counterstrike three hexes away (yes, that means no escort-- which didn't matter since my planes met almost no CAP by then) sank an enemy CV and badly damaged three more in the process. And as a bonus, Halsey's air rating increased to 8. [:D]


2) When the Firefly I comes out, put them on the US carriers. Reason: Notice that the TBM avenger has a range of 4. That means it can sometimes attack enemy targets unescorted-- which usually results in your planes getting slaughtered because a cannon rating of 7 is not enough to defend itself by 1943-45 standards. Using the Firefly solves this problem since it has a range of 4 as opposed to F6F Hellcat's 3. Sure, the Firefly has lower maneuverability and durability, but it wins in cannon, range, and bomb capacity (double damage against land targets). You can keep using it until the F7F and F8F come out.

Starting around October 1942, the Vengeance becomes available, and it's a fine choice for land-based squadrons because of its impressive range of five hexes.

Vengeance later upgrades to Mosquito VI, which has its range reduced to four hexes and bomb capacity cut in half (which means damage against land targets is halved). Not to mention that I rarely see a Mosquito attacking ships with the 1000 lb bomb. Mosquito VI is superior in all other aspects, though (its cannon rating of 20 and maneuverability rating of 19 are very high for a bomber).

It’s actually worth keeping a squadron of Martin 139’s around for a while for their bomb capacity: they work nicely against Japanese LCU’s if there are no enemy fighters present. But don’t set any factories to make them; their cost is 99.

Another reason to keep the Martin 139's: they upgrade to B-25's!

ORIGINAL: strawbuk
The warning is that while messing with allies is usually ok BEWARE THE WELLY FACTOR - yes you might like the range 8 Wellington, but if you switch a factory (one that builds tac bombers) to build it, the factory will then later auto switch to B-24s. Once on B-24s it cannot be put to anything but 24s and 17s - so you may end up with a tac bomber shortage - but a huge stockpile of B-24s

Actually, non-USAAF airgroups cannot even use the B-17 or the B-29; they are stuck with the B-24. So when the B-29 comes out, you'll have a shortage of B-24s due to automatic factory upgrades. A "gamey" option that I sometimes use is to turn "human factory control" on, which prevents the automatic upgrade of Wellington III factories.

By the way, since Wellington III is in slot 25, there is one more reason to keep it: by 1945, its range will increase from 8 to 10. Slot 25 was used for P-51s in former versions. Their range gets increased in 1945 to allow them to escort B-29s when bombing the home islands. It was taken out because historically Mustangs couldn't fly that far. But since this was hard-coded, you can now enjoy the unhistorical "range extension" on Wellingtons. (Imagine Wellingtons bombing the Home Islands from the Marianas [:)])

[strawbuk]

2) When the Firefly I comes out, put them on the US carriers. Reason: Notice that the TBM avenger has a range of 4. That means it can sometimes attack enemy targets unescorted-- which usually results in your planes getting slaughtered because a cannon rating of 7 is not enough to defend itself by 1943-45 standards. Using the Firefly solves this problem since it has a range of 4 as opposed to F6F Hellcat's 3. Sure, the Firefly has lower maneuverability and durability, but it wins in cannon, range, and bomb capacity (double damage against land targets). You can keep using it until the F7F and F8F come out.


Strawb - I suggest that you use range 4 TBMs in your land based marine/navy groups (makes rebasing round islands easier and ok as ground attack planes) and keep TBFs on CVs to avoid non escorted disasters. For your CV work after all they are both torpedo carriers and that is (mainly) what you want. (Note that most nee CV/CVE/CVL arroive with TBMs on board) I have on occaision put TBMs on CVE TFS if I know they are just doing rear area/mop up work fadcimng little CAP, and wnat range four for more flexibility

Vengeance later upgrades to Mosquito VI, which has its range reduced to four hexes and bomb capacity cut in half (which means damage against land targets is halved). Not to mention that I rarely see a Mosquito attacking ships with the 1000 lb bomb. Mosquito VI is superior in all other aspects, though (its cannon rating of 20 and maneuverability rating of 19 are very high for a bomber).

Strawb - Yes nice plane - I mix it and the earlier beaufighter (entriely baised non-stat reason) in my CW sqns. But of course beau arrives earlier and so your grps will be more experienced, hopefully

Another reason to keep the Martin 139's: they upgrade to B-25's!

strawbuk - You can manualy upgrade anyway - I usually upgrade DEI airforces to hudsons set on NI, and so far been very lucky (see LST AAR) - they face less CAP than in pacific 9hopefully) and range 5 is a real shocker in thsoe congested waters.


Actually, non-USAAF airgroups cannot even use the B-17 or the B-29; they are stuck with the B-24. So when the B-29 comes out, you'll have a shortage of B-24s due to automatic factory upgrades.

strawb - Very true - though certainly on manual factory control you should have enough B24s stockpiled to supply brits through war, with factories on max B-29 production.

By the way, since Wellington III is in slot 25, there is one more reason to keep it: by 1945, its range will increase from 8 to 10. Slot 25 was used for P-51s in former versions. Their range gets increased in 1945 to allow them to escort B-29s when bombing the home islands. It was taken out because historically Mustangs couldn't fly that far. But since this was hard-coded, you can now enjoy the unhistorical "range extension" on Wellingtons. (Imagine Wellingtons bombing the Home Islands from the Marianas [:)])

VERY gamey....!

I feel a seperate gamey post coming on...