The Amazing Enemy

Zorfwaddle · Post by **Zorfwaddle** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 2:12 am

Here I am, back from doing stuff for the USN,
and I download the newest version of 6.1
(eagerly I might add) and decide to do my usual long WWII campaign as the USA, to start with.
The french are dug in (as you well know) in the
first scenario of the campaign. The weather
turns out to be a sandstorm. My troops can
barely see their hands in front of their faces
apparently, cant shoot worth a damn and cant see
a battalion of Legionners 2 meters away. Anywho,
I get on the beach, am making some headway and
the f-ing french start taking armor out from
WAY long away. The battalion of french
apparently can see all the way to Atlanta and are shooting up my guys with horrendous accuracy.
I know they are better trained, but a freaking sandstorm is a sandstorm. It does not appear to have the same effect on those clowns as the player troops. A little ridiculous.....

George

bradmbrown · Post by **bradmbrown** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 3:04 am

Revanche

I had those Frenchmen whack ALL of my SP Arty and much of their support, either busting the guns or rendering the crews into spineless jelly. I had moved my SPA to some bushes to the (map-wise) NW of an airfield and some buildings. Whack whack whack went the French cannon, whimp whimp whimp went the US fast response arty. I was left with some Sherman/Ronsons cigarette lighters, some APCS and some infantry. My guys couln't see the enemy.
Played a number more turns and surrendered to the frenchmen after the beat they crap out of my tanks and began snacking on APCs and fried chicken snack infantry.
I was disgraced.

I got my revenge. Restarted, fiddled around when purchacing units, bought some tigers, panthers, matildas, mechanized barbecues, spotters, and as much off board arty as I could, saved the game, exited, went to chlanda's nice SPWAW editor thingie, played god and then came back for my revenge. Oh and did I mention, God gave my Yankee troops a LOT of extra cash to spend.

The French, they got nice guns there at that airfield, me? I got God's ear, a hefty helping of Klingon Technology and a huge bank account.

(There is no such thing as a dirty-fighter)

Zorfwaddle · Post by **Zorfwaddle** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 3:51 am

Sorry for asking a simple question. Apparently
wondering why the AI gets such advantages is
a big no-no, according to some people.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 6:21 am

Huh? A big non-no to who? Questions are always welcome.

You are advancing over open ground against entrenched opposition, seems pretty obvious that he will see you before you se him, especially if you are a big ole tank and he is an AT gun???

The sandstorm makes it worse, your advancing vehicles are not nearly as obscured as the AT guns hunkered down under their camo netting. You would get teh same advantage in similar circumstatnces. There is no "cheating " in the spotting routines for the AI.

bradmbrown · Post by **bradmbrown** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 8:28 am

Sorry for asking a simple question. Apparently wondering why the AI gets such advantages is
a big no-no, according to some people.

You referin' to my little vignette? I didn't question anything! I just said what I did in the same scenario.

Ever walk into the wind, during a howling snowstorm, facing west, with a breaking sky, at sundown, toward guys with guns hiding behind fortifications with a distinct dislike of you?

Niether have I.
<img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0"> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

gnoccop · Post by **gnoccop** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 1:43 pm

I never tried this battle, but advancing in the open is not easy.
Try with a lot of smoke and hope the wind don't disperse your thin cover from enemy los!
use arty with big shells (150mm) on possible enemy position.
but your mission is hard and men are soft!

Zorfwaddle · Post by **Zorfwaddle** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 2:52 pm

No, not you General. It seems in a
different thread people have a problem
with people accusing the AI of cheating;
Ive got a problem with people labeling me
a whiner when Ive just got a question.

panda124c · Post by **panda124c** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 3:47 pm

Originally posted by Zorfwaddle:
Here I am, back from doing stuff for the USN,
and I download the newest version of 6.1
(eagerly I might add) and decide to do my usual long WWII campaign as the USA, to start with.
The french are dug in (as you well know) in the
first scenario of the campaign. The weather
turns out to be a sandstorm. My troops can
barely see their hands in front of their faces
apparently, cant shoot worth a damn and cant see
a battalion of Legionners 2 meters away. Anywho,
I get on the beach, am making some headway and
the f-ing french start taking armor out from
WAY long away. The battalion of french
apparently can see all the way to Atlanta and are shooting up my guys with horrendous accuracy.
I know they are better trained, but a freaking sandstorm is a sandstorm. It does not appear to have the same effect on those clowns as the player troops. A little ridiculous.....

George

I know what you mean you'd think the French would be more corporative and join us to fight the 'filthy boshe'. That first senerio as the Americans is rough, it's one of the things that makes playing the Americans a real chalange. Due to their low experience they are not good troops. A suggestion, after playing the initial senerio, decline any games against the Germans until you have at least three games against the Italians (they are not easy either) to get some experience for your troops.
Watch for the muzzle flashes from the French guns, drop smoke in front of them then pound them with 8" or 16" guns. Also get some recon units, four man SMG, they have a better chance of spotting the enemy.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 8:15 pm

Well, youhave to admit, you did not exactly phrase teh question in a "neutral" way.

The fact that the AI uses the SAME routines as humans has been hashed to death. Is your implication that the asymmetry in the spotting routine is the "AI cheating" based on a detailed analysis fo the spotting in the game? Or because things did not go your way?

It should come as no surprise that the latter is taking as "whining".

The manner in which one asks a question can have a great impact on how folks percieve the asker. There are no dumb questions, but one can pose a question in a confrontational tone, that invites criticism in return.

That folks that KNOW why the behavior you expereince is like that, and that it is not because of "AI cheating" look askance at such implicatations should come as no surprise either.

Now the real question you are asking should not be "Why does the AI cheat so ridiculously" but "Why is the asymmetry in spotting figured out the way it is?"

In the real world if I am behind a fence looking through a peep hole, and you are walking toward, me, I will see you at a far greater distance, even in a sand storm or blizzard than you can see me. Does your question take issue with this fact? Do you mean to imply that you should see me through the fence, just becasue I see you?

I tried to be nice in reponding, but questions posed in the manner in which you posed it, are the exact sort of thing I meant in my "ill-considered criticism" diatribe... Causal observers read such posts and assume that something is truely very wrong, rather than someone having either a difference of opinion with the design decisions made, or a failure to understand them.

Panzer Capta · Post by **Panzer Capta** » Fri Sep 07, 2001 8:53 pm

The beach is restricted in size, the coordinates are known and sent to the French artillery batteries, and the results are devastating.......i think a possible explanation factoring in a wee bit of luck.

nexus · Post by **nexus** » Sat Sep 08, 2001 4:37 pm

, but a freaking sandstorm is a sandstorm[/QB][/QUOTE]

mhh. i played a game in with sandstorm. the effect was that inf. can only move 1 hex in the open and vehicles 3 - 6 hexes. BUT,strangely the visibilty seems not to be affected very much by this sandstorm. why????
not very realistic,or ???

Zorfwaddle · Post by **Zorfwaddle** » Sat Sep 08, 2001 8:13 pm

The battle was at 0500, in a sandstorm. I assumed my poor visibility was due to the sandstorm. I was simply amazed that the French didnt seem to have such a problem with sighting. I did have a problem with movement too, as you indicated. Anyway, I ended up with a marginal victory, soon after overrunning the French HQ at the last set of objective hexes.

George

A_B · Post by **A_B** » Sun Sep 09, 2001 12:13 am

the 'sandstorm effects movement, and max visiability, but it does not noticeably effect spotting within your visability range. For example, the enemy can spot you at 10 hexes just as easy in a sandstorm, at night, or in a blizzard as on a nice sunny day.

This has been discussed before. A solution is to use the preference settings to alter spotting, hitting to reflect poor weather. Route/Rally and opfire can be reduced to reflect night fighting. I have an excell spreadsheet with recommended changes. Email if you want a copy.

A_B

Zorfwaddle · Post by **Zorfwaddle** » Sun Sep 09, 2001 1:56 am

Thanks for the offer. I have everything in preferences to "ON" with the exception of Command and Control and the OP fire confirm. After my initial exasperation at the capabilities of the French, I whooped them.

Alexandra · Post by **Alexandra** » Sun Sep 09, 2001 5:28 am

AB, I'd be interested in that spreadsheet.

Alex