Drowning the Enemy...

[Brady]

I have been woundering just how effective it is to atempt to drown a unit that is at sea, in UV I was always a bit suprised at how little aparent damage their was to a Unit that was particaly drowned, this being in instances of course whear one ship out of several that was transporting it was actualy hit and sunk.

So how bad is it in WiTP when a Ship goes down, what effect does it have on the unit?

[Mr.Frag]

All ships have the ability to over carry by a certain extent. This capacity is used to carry the excess troops. You have to sink ships to crank past this level and start causing massive losses. Not sure how it fits in with equipment really, but men can swim for a bit. Never really thought much about it. Too bad you didn't ask that one a few months back when we could have had some lively discussions on what should happen vs what does happen. [;)]

[Fallschirmjager]

You would have to include a complex formula base on time in the water, distance from land, avalible transports, air cover (transports being hit by the enemy are not going to stick around) as well as a few things I am missing. I agree with Brady not enough damage is done to ground units that are in the water. After 24 hours of floating in the Pacific your chances of survival are going to be slim to none. Yet I usualy only see about 10-20% of the unit from the sunken transport lost.

[denisonh]

Your chance of survival would just as likely depend on a couple of things:

1. How quickly the ship sank. If it goes down fast, even getting off the boat wouldn't help, as you would get sucked down with it. Huge loss of life.

2. If there are few/no escorts as a result of a night sub attack, no ship captain in his right mind will stop for survivors (and become the next target for the sub). In the day with substantial escort it would be a diffferent story.

[Brady]

Well we still can Mr. Frag, after all nothing is realy ever totaly finished right, Patches are posable[:)]


One would think that having a Ship sunk out from under a unit would cause a huge loss of potential and render it combat inefective, the loss of equipment would be total if it were all on one ship. It was mentioed earler that Avation units shiped and considered crated (their planes I mean) could be sunk, if their men are recovered from the sea, in part I would think all their planes would be gone as well, does this hapen in WiTP? Or Do you nead to sink the whole Convoy to acheave this?

[Mr.Frag]

Yep, but right now focus is "get it out the door in 0 days!" [:D]

Nothing will change now. After the Gold Code, we can talk about future patches etc all we want. [;)]

[dwesolick]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Yep, but right now focus is "get it out the door in 0 days!" [:D]

Nothing will change now. After the Gold Code, we can talk about future patches etc all we want. [;)]

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In other words, I agree.

Seems that, regarding losses at sea, distance from a land hex would be a primary factor in drowning rates. If a transport goes down in a coastal hex, perhaps a larger portion of the unit is saved. If it goes down in the middle of the Philippine Sea, well that's it for that particular LCU. Another factor would be whether there were escorts in the TF that could pick up survivors. This seems to happen already in UV. Good stuff for a FUTURE PATCH.[8D]

[Brady]

Interestingly enough...So What if they survive, they will have no weapons, food, fresh porn, or toiltries[:)], Hince my point about them being Combate Inefective..... This is why in UV I was always baffeled at how little efect their seamed to be when a ship went down that was carring part of a unit.

[2Stepper]

I'm only hazarding an idea here, but maybe an answer to this would be in terms of "fatigue?" That's reflected in the game... Something similar to lacking supply, etc... It's only an idea, but if you sink a ship in a harbor with say, 15% casualties of 5000, that's still a lot of men left over to carry on the fight... That said, they're demoralized somewhat, plus being down on supplies...

hence fatigue...

It's a good notion for patches, etc, if needed... [8D]

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

When a ship goes down, troops have a chance to be picked up by other ships in the task force. If everything goes perfectly, up to one third can be saved. Any saved take a really big hit in morale. Only troops can be saved, not guns or vehicles.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood

ORIGINAL: Brady

I have been woundering just how effective it is to atempt to drown a unit that is at sea, in UV I was always a bit suprised at how little aparent damage their was to a Unit that was particaly drowned, this being in instances of course whear one ship out of several that was transporting it was actualy hit and sunk.

So how bad is it in WiTP when a Ship goes down, what effect does it have on the unit?

[kaleun]

Good. Thanks.
Now to see how it work IRL (Meaning, in real game)

[Brady]

TY Mike Wood, for posting that.

Howeaver they would not have their personal weapons, or any gear other than the cloths on the back, so how long does this portion remain efectivaly unusable when laded?

[Mr.Frag]

Howeaver they would not have their personal weapons, or any gear other than the cloths on the back, so how long does this portion remain efectivaly unusable when laded?

It depends on what is waiting for them really. Should they land into combat, they are going to hurt even more.

[Brady]

So say 1/3 of a Regement is pulled out of the water, is that regement only about 66% capable then? Asuming it is just an Infentry unit.

[Mr.Frag]

No, think the whole thing through:

9000 men spread over 3 ships.

1 ship is sunk.

thats 3000 men.

up to 1/3rd can be saved.

thats 1000 men of the 3000 on the ship.

You now have 7000 unhappy men.

Golden rule, spread out your troops in more ships then they need so the loss is less staggering for a single ship.

[dwesolick]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

No, think the whole thing through:

9000 men spread over 3 ships.

1 ship is sunk.

thats 3000 men.

up to 1/3rd can be saved.

thats 1000 men of the 3000 on the ship.

You now have 8000 unhappy men.

Um, you mean 7000 unhappy men?[&:]

[Brady]

Ok well I was trying to make it simple and just say 1.3 were pulled out to see what effect it would have on the whole, but your example is a bit easer to work with since it is how the game modeles this...

.........................

SO What I am getting from this is that while the unit suffers some cashualties, in the case you mention would not 2,000 be lost?

It also semas that while they are unhappy they aparently retain the combat capabailitys?

[Mr.Frag]

Up to 3000 of the 3000 on the ship could be lost. Best case you could save 1000 of them.

[Brady]

"It also semas that while they are unhappy they aparently retain the combat capabailitys? "

?

...........................................

A related isue:

If a TF actualy atempts to rescue the survivors does it become more vulnerable to atack as a result?

[mogami]

OK here is an example from UV where USN submarine sinks 1x 1.0k AP of a TF of 7x1.0k AP. Loaded is a Japanese infantry Regt.

Inf Regt has 144 assault value. So each AP has 21 points on board. You sink 1 AP but the Japanese rescue 7 points. The Regt lands and has 133 assault points worth of troops with 7 disabled. The unit can still defeat enemy force of 60 assault points.
I don't know how you math wizards can tell sinking a ship in UV has no effect. When you see "TF xx rescuing 7th Bde you don't know how much of the unit was on the ship.
The smaller the number of ships loading a unit the more impact one of them sinking will have. (If you cram a unit onto 1 ship and it is sunk it is pretty much kaput in both UV and WITP. If like Frag you load a division onto more then 40 ships and one is sunk it will hardly be noticed. (In UV a 7k load IJA Regt always gets at least 6 ships for loading when I make the TF's. (6x2k AP) First they offload faster, and second the unit is less exposed to loss form submarines or air attack. There are players who load units onto as few ships as possible in order to move more men at one time. I go for off loading fewer men faster.