Can Japan Win???

[ctid98]

All,

Yesterday I asked for peoples opinion on an Allied strategy, today I'm curious about Japans.

Everybody seems convinced Japan has no chance, but what if??? Take a look at history.

The Coral Sea, Japan lost 1 CV and had 2 others damaged, America 1 lost and another heavily damaged but back out in 3 days, nice job![:D] At Midway, the Japanese taken by surprise and lost 4-1. Everybody argrees this was the turning point in the Pacific.

Now if you re-create the same operations in the game but, Japan doesn't loose a CV at Coral and have 2 damaged and also manages to sink the Yorktown as well the Midway operation would have odds of 7-2 in Japans favour. So, now you can take the island and deal with the American CV's as planned. The Allies with no major naval forces can't really do much to stop Japan.

If you could get to this position in the game and had a pair on you big enough to try for an invasion of Hawaii could you force America right back to the West Coast. [X(]

If, and I admit its a BIG if you could find yourself in such a position can you force Americas surrender and win as Japan (or would you have to take a port on the West Coast for this?), or do you have to sit and wait for the onslaught to commence from the Allies, admittedly with a huge sh$t eating grin and serious gloating power!

Later

[Radzy]

As it was mentioned in other thread.

It is almost impossible for Japs to win the war. However they can win the game.

[ctid98]

Sorry, missed that one, been away from the forums for a while.[:(]

[Radzy]

Thats ok. Even I know it was discussion about that and can't directly point in which thread[:)]

[Xargun]

Personally I think the key to winning the game for Japan would be a lightning strike at Hawaii. If they somehow capture Pearl (not sure what kind of defenses are present early in the war) they would destroy EVERY US ship in port.. Not only the major combat vessels (BBs and CAs) but all the support ships too (has to be lots of Subs, cargo ships, tenders, DDs, etc...). I think this would be such a great benefit for the Japanese, that it should be attempted (once again if possible - not sure what defenses hawaii has).

Even a loss of a CV or three in the attack would be worth it to destroy that many allied ships.

Xargun

[Nikademus]

only if the Allied player leaves all those warships sitting in port. I doubt that would happen in game.

Capturing the base would require alot of troops and would probably take a while to acomplish now that the LCU rules have been beefed up.

[Fallschirmjager]

Only chance Japan has is to do so well in the early war and dig in and form multiple layers of defense.
In PBEM the Allied player will just give up.

[Xargun]

I am referring to within the first few days of the game - even a non-historical start.. I know its gamey.. but might give the Japanese that extra punch they need.

Xargun

[j campbell]

Xargun-more importantly it would have led to the capture (most likely) of a large number of US naval staff and denial of the base for US purposes. i am not certain of the US defenses on the island nor japan's amphibious landing capabilities but i can pretty safely guess that this hypothetical operation would have ended in disaster.

[mogami]

What would stop the USN ships from simply sailing away? There are 2 full divisions in PH on Dec 7th (plus other troops) You can't take a non atoll hex in just one turn.
As soon as Japanese TF sailed into PH it would have to engage the CD and mines. The next night every USN surface combat ship would be in a TF in PH and there would be major surface battles. USN ships would just go back into port to rearm, repair. Japanese ships would have to make trip all the way back to Saipan to reach a port large enough for them to put the fires out and stop flooding. (Taking Midway does not help because the port there is only a 1)
The 2 USA divisions are dug in level 5. So the Japanese need to land 7-1 odds or spend a week getting the fort level to 0 where 2-1 will win.

I tried this a long time ago in testing. I captured PH but 1/3 of IJN surface ships were sunk and over 100 transports were lost. PH defense has been imporved since then. Also it was just a test so it did not matter that nothing was occuring in SRA.

[grraven2004]

Even if Japan could capture Hawaii and a port on the west coast how are they going to be able to keep them supplied?
Also if you play the grand campaign the US idustiral might will eventually roll over Japan. In game terms I would be glad to survive as the IJN and force the Allies into a ceasefire

[kaleun]

That was exactly the japanese plan

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Xargun

I am referring to within the first few days of the game - even a non-historical start.. I know its gamey.. but might give the Japanese that extra punch they need.

Xargun

Mogami pretty much already asked it....so i'll take a different tack. You are aware that on Turn 2, the Allied player can sortie every ship not sunk from Oahu, either to fight, or to flee?

Or were you reffering to the crippled ships? Even they "might" escape given that once FLT damage is downed sufficiently they could be put into a TF and attempt to crawl away. The chances for intercept would be good though.

Keep in mind that in the game, FLT damage can always be quickly repaired if in a large port. Realize this isn't 100% realistic but its a holdover from UV days. SYS damage of course can take a LOOONG time to repair....particularily for large warships. Fleeing cripples with 80+% damage would be little more than floating targets.

[Xargun]

I do not know the defenses of Pearl at all, and just going by the rule that all enemy ships in a captured port are imediately sunk.. So if by whim of god you managed to take Pearl on turn 1, all the US ships in port would not get a chance to escape, but they would all be destroyed by the game rules.. IRL they would simply sail away with as many of their crew that they could, but I'm talking in game.

If the US has 2 divisions on Pearl at game start, then Mogami is right. The Japanese have no chance on taking her in one turn.

Xargun

[freeboy]

If you want to tweek the game to a really absurd level Japan could win.. can you imaging a mirror game covering the whole war? maybe one of the later campaigns..

[Nikademus]

yep. Even if the Japanese sent 10 divisions, they wouldn't land enough troops to be able to attack and take the base on the same turn. The IJN player would have to have TF's in place to intercept fleeing ships and there'd be a major gunfight at the OK corral

[sven6345789]

even if the japanese go for pearl, it would take all of their resources. therefore, nothing would happen in the SRA. therefore, the game would probably be over after 10 months (being the time japanese stockpiled supplies last).

[kaleun]

This has piqued my interest. I might just try it in a PBEM game

[barbarrossa]

Would be extremely interesting to try.

WitP isn't going to be a "game", this is going to be a dream come true. I've wanted something like this since I was a little kid [:)]

[Nikademus]

the real question should be,

Can Frag Win?

I already know the answer to that one of course