AAR - PBEM Game 2 (The FIRST public AAR)

[Tacoma]

Oleg, is it possible to give us a better understanding how the combat phase works? What all determines the outcome? Does rolling the dice have an involvement? Just curious... Thanks for any additional input... [8D]

Sincerely,
Mr. Noob
[8|]

[Joel Billings]

ORIGINAL: Tacoma

Oleg, is it possible to give us a better understanding how the combat phase works? What all determines the outcome? Does rolling the dice have an involvement? Just curious... Thanks for any additional input... [8D]

Sincerely,
Mr. Noob
[8|]

Oleg, feel free to post the battle report page and describe how the thing works if you want to (I would but I'm too busy with WitP right now).

[Oleg Mastruko]

To be perfectly honest about it the screenshot I am about to post shows the most mysterious part of the game for me at this moment [:D] So I would not consider myself an expert for WAW combat model by no means [:D]

Yes, dice are involved, that much I can tell [:D] (See picture below)

So, this here is "combat report" screen (don't know if it's official name, lets call it that for now). It lists all combats that happened in the turn so far.

NOTE: this screen below is NOT from our 4-player game and technically does *NOT* belong to this AAR, but it was easiest for me to get. It is from my other alpha PBEM game. That much is obvious, since on this picture we have GE attacking RU, which simply didn't happen so far in our 4-player game we comment here.

What this screen shows are results of just one attack. What I did (I am German here!) is took bunch of INF, MECH, Fighter and TAC AIR units and entered Russian controlled region. Then I triggered combat using the "combat trigger" MB already explained in one of his posts. Result may be seen here - some RU units were destroyed, some damaged (may be repaired), some retreated. I conquered the region. And I lost one ART unit (top right).

Note that combat itself happened in a series of sub-phases or sub-combats. This was rather complicated combat with many units, and there were at least dozen of such "sub combats" (note scroll bar to the right). One of the phases is highlighted in pop up window (German INF attacks Russian INF) - and "there was total of two hits". Those "two hits" are shown as two fiery explosions in the report.

Oleg

[Oleg Mastruko]

Parts describing various "nuances" of combat and combat resolution in alpha documentation are very large, and I wouldn't want to quote them here (because of the NDA, because they're still alpha, and last but not least because they're LONG [:D]).

Chapters dealing only with retreats (!!) are 1.600 words or 8.600 characters long (remember it's only various "retreat rules" not combat in itself!). And this is still alpha documentation (final version will if anything most probably be even more comprehensive.) To quote MB: "does anyone feel the need to compare this game to Axis and Allies any more?". [;)]

Some things to note though: Combat is resolved in this order – Air to air, air to ground, ship to ship, sub and ASW, ship to land, land to land. There are many nuances and rules specifically for naval and naval air warfare (this is GG game after all [8D]).

Oleg

[Tacoma]

Thanks for the information! [:)]

[Becket]

Wow -- ship to land, sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet! Great stuff, O, thanks for giving us a fix over the weekend.

[neuromancer]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

For a bunch of game mechanic reasons I don't want to bother with explaining, we just can't have China incorporated into another player. <snip> We knew everyone would ask for separate British but it ain't going to happen.

Unfortunate, but I guess we'll live.

Although I can't argue with your logic and historical accuracy, it would be too difficult at this point to change the map.

Also unfortunate, but again I imagine we'll live.


Maybe these are things you can think about for the future. Maybe in a WaW2?

[neuromancer]

I can understand the annoyance over comparisons to A&A, but you have to understand it will be inevitable. On the surface it looks a lot like A&A.

Of course, what is obvious from reading this AAR, is that there is a crap load more depth here than in A&A! That is what has to be gotten across, that the game looks simple, but it is actually pretty complex for this scale of game. I think that will give it much more replayability than A&A or even Strategic Command.

[color]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Uruguay is on the map as separate entity (further south of the area visible on screenshot above), so obviously graphic guy managed to sneak his country into the game

I don't think anyone will ever notice this while laying out his strategic plans for subjugation of the world though.

Oleg

The graphics guy ( that would be me [:)] ) lives in Uruguay but was born and raised in Norway. So no sneaking my country into the game, it was already there [;)] (Norway that is).

While generating the first version of the map I did provide some feeback, and in some cases changes were made, but only in areas I had more knowledge of. South American history is not my strongest side, I do know the Uruguayan history but that is not much use in this game [:'(].

But look at it from this angle, a separate Uruguay means you can recreate the battle of the River Plate and send the Graf Spee to Montevideo - capitol of Uruguay (and scuttle it in the harbor! [:D] ). I seem to remember Uruguay has no port in the game, but a least you can imagine the events if an axis fleet units is lost in the sea region outside Uruguay.

Actually, remembering history, the Graf Spee was not very welcome in neutral Uruguay, a hotbed of French and British sympathizers. The captain of Graf Spee wanted to stay 15 days to repair the ship, but after a heavy diplomatic battle the ship was forced to leave the harbour after some days.
Among the many options considered apart from scuttling the ship was leaving the neutral waters and make a break for Buenos Aires - the capitol of Argentina. The crew of the Graf Spee was interned in Argentina, the same was not an option in Uruguay. It has been said that during WW II Argentinas economic interests lied with the allies but her true heart and mind lied with the axis. Even though both countries stayed neutral during the war (Uruguay declared war on Germany one week before the fall of Germany, so it does not count), this 'true sympathy' could possibly be considered reason enough for splitting the two countries.

[a19999577]

Argentina was fairly pro-Axis during the entire war [I think it was the only Latin American country not to declare war on Germany... or was it Chile?]. The rest of the countries basically followed the US line, and it is fairly well known that Brazil actually sent troops to fight in Italy. So yeah, you could split Uruguay from it on that principle given it's anti-Axis leanings. Now, it's just that Ecuador had VERY STRONG anti-Peru feelings, and Bolivia and Paraguar strong feelings against each other.

There's a funny little anecdote about Peru and WWII. Seems that Peru was the second country to use airborne troops in the history of warfare (Germany being the first, with the assault on Eben Emael in 1940). The Peruvian victory over Ecuador in 1941 impressed Hitler enough to actually send a letter of congratulations to the Peruvian president. Peru still declared war on Germany a few years later, though.

[color]

ORIGINAL: a19999577

. . and it is fairly well known that Brazil actually sent troops to fight in Italy.

[center]SENTA A PUA!

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[/link][/center]

[paullus99]

Well, I'm back & just waiting for the next turn to arrive so we can finish this bad boy off....I'm hoping that 1942 is a little less busy than 1940/41 was - I need time to reorganize and prepare.

[MButtazoni]

Winter 1942, Western Allies

not much going on for the allies this turn, just picking off the odd unescorted JA Transports, repositioning in the Med against the inevitable GE air attack. The Australians launched a succesful invasion to recapture the Malayan penninsula.


Here is the Force Pool and Production Queue at the end of Winter 1942 (which is the first turn of 42 not last turn)

[Pkunzipper]

From the unit fielded screen it seems clear that Germany should try to put out Allies out of the game in the next 4 turn...It seems the tactic of leaving alone Russia won't pay off, when all those Russian units will become free to attack the game will be over...!

Japan seems very weak... he has so few airunits to support any attack on pacific islands and Australia, and he has nearly nothing in production...

It will be interesting reading what the axis player will do in this "year"!

[Hanal]

But what was mentioned previously is that the quality of those Russian units may not be on par with their German counterparts....it's the old maxim of quantity verses quality, so if the Russian units do not stand up well to the Germans, then the numbers may not be as significant as it appears....we'll find out fairly soon I'm sure....

[Becket]

As I think Ollie mentioned, it certainly will put to the test Stalin's maxim that "quantity has a quality all its own".

[pterrok]

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Yes, dice are involved, that much I can tell [:D] (See picture below)

If your INF in the game from the combat screen shot are are like those in THIS ARR, it might be fair to assume that the number of dice rolled was 6 because that was what was on the research screen. The evasion number would have to do with what number rolled was a hit or a modifier to that number? Else why is everyone researching evasion?


On another matter, sorry, it just makes NO sense to call Winter 42 the START of the year! Winter starts around December 22 and even though the bulk of winter IS in the following calendar year, you're making it needlessly obtuse! (Just my two cents.)

[Hanal]

ORIGINAL: pterrok

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Yes, dice are involved, that much I can tell [:D] (See picture below)

If your INF in the game from the combat screen shot are are like those in THIS ARR, it might be fair to assume that the number of dice rolled was 6 because that was what was on the research screen. The evasion number would have to do with what number rolled was a hit or a modifier to that number? Else why is everyone researching evasion?


On another matter, sorry, it just makes NO sense to call Winter 42 the START of the year! Winter starts around December 22 and even though the bulk of winter IS in the following calendar year, you're making it needlessly obtuse! (Just my two cents.)

Winter starts only 10 days before the new year and you think they are making it needlessly obtuse?.....it seems your observation and comment on it falls more neatly into that category....[8|]

[pterrok]

Well, it means that Christmas of 42 in this game actually occured in 1941! [:D]

There were at least two cases (maybe three) where they had to remind each other that the year started in Winter, instead of Spring which you must admit, is more conventional. When you look around the spiral of the production queue, isn't it jarring to you to see things seemingly out of order?

All they really need to do is change the label to say Winter 41/42 and then things would flow correctly.

[Joel Billings]

Basic Combat -

Attack factor - Roll number of dice equal to appropriate attack rating minus the defenders armor rating.
Defense Factor - Multiplay defender evasion rating times defender durability rating.

Many modifiers to both (someone else can list them all)

If AF>=DF than one hit (damaged, if militia destroyed, if already damaged destroyed)
If AF>=2xDF than two hits (destroyed)

So German infantry with 6 ground attack attacks Soviet infantry with 4 durability and 4 evasion. Average AF will be 21, while DF is 16. Likely to get 1 hit. (guess around 75%?)Could get 2 hits.
Soviet infantry with 6 ground attack atacks German infantry with 6 evasion and 4 durability. Average AF will be 21, while DF is 24. Not as likely to get 1 hit (guess around 35%?).
Again, this is basic, there are many modifiers and sequence of attack issues that enter into results.