Iknow I always come back to that but...

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:01 am

Please Matrix, can you just gimme an email secured enough so I can send you my CC info and then you can send me the MC by standard air mail ?

I just cant afford the UFD shipping cost to France <img src="frown.gif" border="0">

Better even can you try to look at putting a registration system so we can directly download and register the MC ? I know there is some pretty secure system like this ( like providing a key that is related to CPU ). and I t will help me a lot <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:02 am

UNfortunately when we offered cheap non-trackable shipping we had our butt handed too us in non-delievery and charge backs.

Whether the international shipping community is really that lousy, or some folks took advantage of us or some combination of both we will never know, but without a trackable shipping method overseas we get creamed.

As to downloads, there are similar problems with such large files. People clain they didn't successfully downloafd it and charge back their credit card, might be true, might not, but we have know way or knowing or proving one way of the other. The last company that tried to sell agame exclusively through donloads closed up shop about 2 weeks after they started.

Won't be reliable enough until we have smart e-cards.

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 3:57 pm

too bad <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
And another thought so, I orderer a lot from ADG ( yep the guy from World In Flame ) , directly from their web site in Australia and I usualy receive my parcel 2 days after in France !!! how ? because they have a stocking person here that have 2 or 3 of each of their item and that send them to european customers while they send items to him for restocking.
I dont know if you know someone close enough , but I think that perhaps you can contact some resellers, like Duchet in UK, to have them stock some of your title. I know them and they are dedicated to gaming community ( free shipping in France and UK if you buy for 15$ of games, and that ios with high garantee and fast shipping <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ). I guess, they can price the game with just 1 or 2 more dollars for stocking/sending charge. It is just an idea of mine and I didn't talk about that to them, but is it something doable ? it can really help our european community <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Duchet computer:
www.duchet.com

scimitar · Post by **scimitar** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 5:52 pm

I agree with Ivan Greywolf that Matrix could find a more cheaper solution for its foreign customers . For the MCLV CD, I've ordered via the grouped command of Roland Rahn; it's a good initiative from Roland (once again, thank you Roland!!!) but what for the long term? Is it really impossible to find foreign resellers? As an European, I'm thinking at guys like those from Strategic Plus Software, UK.
What are the European customers of Matrix thinking about that?

Resisti · Post by **Resisti** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 6:50 pm

An Euro based stock should be settled,indeed.
I for one I'm still restrained by ordering any MC's due to the too high shipping costs.

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 7:55 pm

The solution to foreign orders is rather a simple no brainer solution when you think out of the box actually.

If I lived in North Nowhere, on the remote other side of the planet, far removed from the US and convenient shipping, the solution could easily be to find a person that was a US resident and sufficiently friendly and reliable.
Of course this is when you find out if the human race really has a chance in the end.

It would be a simple matter for anyone in the US to just buy the cd and then mail it like any other regular mail. The person buying it would only have to send the price of the item in US funds and a couple of bucks to cover sticking it in an airmail bubble envelope and mailing it.

Now of course this assumes that A. the money gets sent to the purchaser B. The purchaser actually buys the item and immediately mails it, and last but not least, C. the purchaser actually does this with absolutely no desire to profit, zero zip nadda add on expense. Is this the capitalist way? hell no. It the way though, that Matrix gets to sell unimpeded multitudes of software with no hassles. Maybe this idea just makes to much sense for any to have noticed it.

Of course this would likely be an affront to several countries that have import export restrictions that are wholely uninterested in serving the consumer.

And there is the other big drawback. We would sure see if all the fuzzy feelgood rhetoric thats saturated the media about the average US citizen was well deserved.

Truly, and you are all being put under the spotlight as of now, would any member here at Matrix, that is also US citizen, honestly act as a conduit for foreign orders? At no cost. Merely to be able to say, yes the US is populated with fine examples of humanity.

Think about it. Matrix gets the sale. Matrix makes money. Matrix funds yet another MC. You get the perk of having supported the company in a way that allows you to buy a product they might not have been able to sell. You get to give big business, and the bureacracies that levy import export duties and all those "kind" express delivery establishments the finger as well.
Cause really, the cost to someone in France really doesnt have to be any more than the cost to dump it in the mail.

Can this be done. Actually I happen to know it can be. I have done it myself. I once sent a lad in Finland 20 packs of the current edition of a popular trading card game. Unopened, at the cost to a Canadian consumer plus the cost to ship something that weighed what they weighed. I asked him to send funds in advance which is only fair. I didnt ask for anything for doing it. I was just amused that I was able to greatly undercut the cost a Finn would have to go to, to buy those cards.

I of course dont use credit cards for anything. I use real genuine cash, money orders. Something that is real when its in your hands. No point in getting in a fuss over "secure transactions". To do this the person sends a money order, the money order buys the item and its sent in the mail. Its that simple folks.

Now I know this works. But it remains to be seen if you can find decent people willing to care.

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 8:12 pm

This assumes that the postal system is 100% reliable. The first time a parcel gets lost in the mails, what happens?

Here is how it will shake out eventually - Matrix releases enough products to intrest a distributor in carrying our wares overseas in a profitable fashion, then foreign shipping sites will be set up. This will likely be year or so away.

In the meantime there is nothing preventing an enterprising individual right now from buying a quantity of games (at a discount) and reselling them locally.

For a 1000$ investment you can buy 50 copies and sell them for the same price we do and if you sell all 50 copies, make 250$

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 10:09 pm

Cant say anyone out there is likely to be in the position to purchase 50 cds.
Me, I wouldnt be doing it, finacial realities to be considered in my case.

Wargames are to a large extent a niche market (something I think often eludes the notice of a lot of posters). I would never suggest my notion to anyone where a mass market major release item is concerned.
Its merely a cool way of us cutting our foreign friends some slack.

With respects to the reliability of the mail though, hmmmm, well I aint exactly in love with Canada Post, but I have never had anything lost for that matter. I send mail fairly freely to all manner of locations locally and internationally. Admittedly I am talking about for the most part ordinary letters. But I have sent numerous cds now in the mail quite satsifactorily. It is sad that a cd is not worth more than the cost of about $2.50 Canadian including a bubble envelope. Extreme mailing costs are just a reflection of a market only wishing to exploit people willing to pay.
Matrix "could" dump each item into a common mailing bubble envelope if it so desired. But I am sure there is some wretched customs snag for a business, that doesnt exist for Joe consumer. Or at least I know I could buy MC and dump it in an envelope and send it where ever with no concern.

With respects to reliability and a lost item. Hmmm well the mediocre addition of insuring the item is a small way to eliminate that matter. I am assuming that Canada is not the only country that offers to its clients the ability to ensure the item for a pitance.
Remember Matrix wont be directly involved in my notion. If the item goes lost between sending person and receiving person, well the if its insured then no one loses (you just order a new one from Matrix, which was never involved in the process and is therefore not even connected in the matter).

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Fri Sep 21, 2001 10:12 pm

Hum, nice suggestion paul, can I sak you 2 things ?

1- how many european there are still interested in buying MC 1 ?

2- Will you advertise on your site all the shipping / adress/ email/ telephone and so on of this guy ?

1000$ is really a sum <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> cant we start down to 100$ as a try <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

scimitar · Post by **scimitar** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 2:52 pm

Well, another problem: the method to find an US friend who can buy the CD for me and then send it to Europe is not so simple: because to send the money to this friend, I've to change my European currency for dollars. To send money in an enveloppe is really dangerous for your money (that method is not appreciated by the European posts); and an international money order will cost me taxes enough to prefer to order directly!!!
Still I think the best method is perheaps to find an European reseller for Matrix games. Due to the notoriety of Steel Panthers serie, I think that it could be possible...
Another topic: I agree that to have a local friend who can help me is great, but for the business it's preferable for Matrix to offer a "business solution".
It's just a suggestion, or a question; but certainly not any criticism against Matrix! Of course it's always possible to find an "individual" solution (once again, thanks Roland for MCLV). But rationaly speaking, if it's possible to do better, why not to do better...

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 3:56 pm

Hello Scimitar

I am curious (cause I am unaware naturally), just how much does it cost you. How do international money orders work for you?
Here in Canada, if I need to send say 20 bucks or 200 bucks it is still the same. Here a money order is merely a fee of like about a dollar. The conversion is about the same. The only hassle is really for me the difference in the worth of the currency ie 20 bucks here is like 30 in US funds.

My whole concept depends on the process of sending a money order not being an expense worth comment. But here in Canada we also dont pay much for internet connection services as well (which explains why by numbers we in Canada average more hard core fast connection types than in the states even).

I would never advocate the notion of sending actual currency in the mail (plenty do in fact send actual currency, but it is never wise).

If France truely cant provide a decent service (by decent I mean one that is approacing the cost effectiveness that I enjoy), then I guess foreign orders really would in fact benefit from a business that acted as a waypoint as it were. This unfortunately likely would not reduce the actual price tag.

Charles2222 · Post by **Charles2222** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 4:58 pm

The easy way to get cash to someone, particularly if it's not a business, is to place the cash, the less bills the better, in a common greeting card. All my life my aunts or grandmother sent birthday cash or what not, and not a single time did the cash ever get stolen enroute. I would say that method is even safer than using an envelope which conceals the contents. In a masked envelope, if you have nothing but the cash and a small note, it's pretty obvious that the contents are likely cash by the overall flimsiness of the item. OTOH, one cannot tell the cash in the envelope by the sturdiness of a greeting card.

msvknight · Post by **msvknight** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 5:41 pm

The real problem as I se it is that the US dollar is so absurdly strong against foreign currencies. The Aussie dollar used to be $0.80 US. Now it is $0.49 US. What this means is that even if Matrix very reasonably prices its new games at $50.00 US, including the postage I am going to have to outlay about $135.00 AUS to obtain this game. Now a year ago at the old rate it would have been about $80.00 AUS. I have received a 2% wage rise over the same period so you can see that we have instant inflation just add water. Not wishing to be killed by my wife I cannot justify paying $135.00 for a game (however fantastic I know it will be) when even the most expensive game on the market is only $100.00. And therein lies the problem...

I am sure that piracy is rife when this sort of thing happens, and although I won't do it myself, I can see where the pirates come from. Personally I'd rather own it, but this won't happen unless you can distribute the CDs directly into this country and avoid the rapacious US Postal Service charges.

This is not just a whinge. I have been waiting very excitedly for Uncommon Valour and War in the Pacific, and as it stands I cannot afford to buy them when they come out due to the postage.

DoubleDeuce · Post by **DoubleDeuce** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 6:08 pm

I see our overseas (especially european) friends are still having problems with the costs for the DFMC.

What kind of costs are we looking at here, in totals for 1 MC disk?

I have my own small business and have shipped plenty of things across the US but never overseas. I have been doing some research on shipping to select destinations and have come up with a little info as to the costs. In the fairness to everyone this should include a delivery confirmation for the protection of both parties. The purchaser knows the item has actually been sent and the seller knows it has been delivered.

I was looking at "Letter-Post" to France with delivery confirmation as an example.

Matrix To ME;
MC Disk = $ 24.99
UPS (Ground) = $ 8.63

Me to the end purchaser (in France);
Letter-Post $ 0.80
Recorded Delivery = $ 2.10
Return Receipt = $1.50

TOTAL: $ 38.08

CC Vendor charge for this order to me = $ 3.04
MY Credit Card vendor charges me 8% per total cost of the order (which depending on the total of the order might not be that much). If small enough I may consider eating that cost.

What I would have to do is set up a page on my website for this and direct interested parties to the page through a link sent to them in an email.
I don't know what kinda fees these guys are looking at paying so I don't know what kind of impact this proposed option would have on their wallets. Any thoughts.

Mike Torrance

scimitar · Post by **scimitar** » Sat Sep 22, 2001 10:44 pm

To Les The Sarge: As an example, I can give you the following: at the beginning of the year, I've ordered for some Luxemburger stamps at the Luxemburger postoffice (for 248 LUF; let say approx. 5,5 USD). There is a parity between LUF and Belgian francs (BEF) - ; so 248 LUF = 248 BEF. I committed the error to pay with an Eurocheque (valable for Europe thus). The bank inputed me some "administrative costs" for 250 BEF! 248 BEF + 250 BEF: a little heavy, isn't it?
Of course, this is an example. To be honnest I must say that the administrative costs on Eurocheques are the same for 248 LUF than for 2500 LUF...
But if I wish to send an International postal payment, costs are calculated on the amount.
Fortunately, the arrival of the Euro currency will facilitate many things inside Europe; but the problem will persist for outside Europe.
Furthermore, if I remember me correctly, there are some US retails having P&P costs lower than those of Matrix (Once again, not a criticism against Matrix!): Chips and Bits for instance. I must say I don't know the different possibilities offered by the US postal services; so perheaps the method used by Matrix is the safest for the customer...
... But on the other hand, do have Matrix had some contacts with European retailers (like Duchet or Strategic Plus Software) for the selling of Matrix games?

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Sun Sep 23, 2001 7:06 pm

Hello Scimitar
apologies
thanks for the response
I must confess my inadequate capacity to fully understand your message though.
I am not very good and understanding your currency related remarks.

Good your try again in idiot friendly terms for this Canuck heheh.

scimitar · Post by **scimitar** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:56 am

To Les the Sarge: well, I will try to be more understandable:
1) The EURO currency is a currency that will replace different European national currencies, like Deutsche Mark, Belgian franc, French franc, Dutch gulden, Danish crown, Luxemburger frank, etc... But British pound will not be replaced by Euro, the British government prefer to maintain the ntional money. The EURO will be effective at 01/01/2002. Of course, the EURO will have the same value in all the lands who will use it.
2) The Eurocheque is a check you can use in the different European countries, not limited to the boundaries of your land.
3) Before the EURO, the different European currencies didn't have the same value of course; so 1 French franc was equivalent to +/- 6,1 Bellgian franc, 1 Deutsche Mark = +/- 21 Belgian franc, and so on. But since years and years, Belgian and Luxemburger governments had decided that both their currencies will have the same value; so 1 BEF = 1 LUX. But for the banks, as a check haves to cross the boundaries, some "administrative costs" have to be imputed to you... (How to make money with money...)
Hope it's more understandable for you; but sorry, I do my best but I'm not working in a financial domain...

Les_the_Sarge_9_1 · Post by **Les_the_Sarge_9_1** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 4:31 pm

Yo Scimitar

that was a bit clearer I guess.
Here in Canada banking fees I guess are so minimal as to be almost un noticable.

A friend told me also that most European countries make a bigger fuss over just where their "currency" actually goes.

Its a shame that currency based transactions for Europeans is such a pain. I have also heard how your online/phone activities can be a costly hell. Here in Canada, when measured on a ratio, we in Canada enjoy a higher ratio of users that employ high speed connection services when compared to even the US.

It is I guess natural for me in Canada to forget that a lot of the world doesnt have it as nice. I can mail anything anywhere for peanuts, and I could leave my computer online permanently if I felt like at no additional cost. And it doesnt interfere with my use of my phone (which can provide long distance services assuming I actually needed long distance, for almost pennies a minute).

It goes a long way I guess to illustrating why the world holds living here in such high regard.

tomaszp · Post by **tomaszp** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:15 pm

Mike
The price you propose is acceptable for me. Would it be possible to buy both MCs this way?
Could you check if sending to Poland isn't more expensive?
Thanks in advance

Tomek

nexus · Post by **nexus** » Mon Sep 24, 2001 10:03 pm

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1:
Yo Scimitar

that was a bit clearer I guess.
Here in Canada banking fees I guess are so minimal as to be almost un noticable.

A friend told me also that most European countries make a bigger fuss over just where their "currency" actually goes.

Its a shame that currency based transactions for Europeans is such a pain. I have also heard how your online/phone activities can be a costly hell. Here in Canada, when measured on a ratio, we in Canada enjoy a higher ratio of users that employ high speed connection services when compared to even the US.

It is I guess natural for me in Canada to forget that a lot of the world doesnt have it as nice. I can mail anything anywhere for peanuts, and I could leave my computer online permanently if I felt like at no additional cost. And it doesnt interfere with my use of my phone (which can provide long distance services assuming I actually needed long distance, for almost pennies a minute).

It goes a long way I guess to illustrating why the world holds living here in such high regard.

yep.

fine for you living in canada........

but fine for me living in germany,too.

rather than afganistan or so. the people in such countries have other problems than caring about mailing and online costs i´m afraid. i don´t mean the "taliban" or so,i was thinking more on the "normal people on the street" or how you would call it....