Kamakazi Units

[Scott_USN]

I have not heard much on these units. I am sure they are in the game, will they follow the same basic rules as PACWAR?

Also will there be any mini subs and such using these umm tactics.

[Nikademus]

Kamakaze's will preform much like the regular bombers i.e. if there's a CAP, they must first battle through that and then they will make runs on their targets, only with the obvious difference that instead of releasing their load and flying away, it's special delivery.

Midget subs are not in the game (officially)

[Scott_USN]

Nikademus thanks, yeah I am not too worried about the subs. Do you know if it is late 43 or 44 when they are allowed? Or will it depend on how well or bad the Japanese are doing?

[Nikademus]

There' s both a date trigger and an 'event' trigger though the date trigger has priority

The date is somewhere in mid 44 i believe, the event trigger is the Allied player has to be within a certain (close) distance to Japan (i.e. he needs to be clearly "winning") in order for Kamakaze units to be selected by Japan player.

However no K' units can be created PERIOD before the date trigger passes.

[jhdeerslayer]

Good! This is one of my favorite drinks. [:D][:D][:D]

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Kamakaze's will preform much like the regular bombers i.e. if there's a CAP, they must first battle through that and then they will make runs on their targets, only with the obvious difference that instead of releasing their load and flying away, it's special delivery.

Midget subs are not in the game (officially)

Just small addition if I may... [;)]


It's KAMIKAZE and not KAMAKAZI.

ka-mi-ka-ze (kä mi kä'zee) n. pl. <-zes> adj.
n.
1. (during World War II) a member of a
special corps in the Japanese air force
charged with suicidal missions against
U.S. warships.
2. an airplane filled with explosives and
flown by a kamikaze.
adj.
3. of or resembling a kamikaze; wildly
reckless; suicidal.
[1944-45; < Japn, = kami (y) (see KAMI) + kaze
wind (in reference to a storm that destroyed a
Mongol fleet invading Japan in 1281)]


Leo "Apollo11"

[Scott_USN]

Sorry I must have missed my Japanese class... If I am not mistaken the actual translation means Divine Wind. Not airplane with explosives in it... Since we are being precise and all.

[Apollo11]

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Scott_USN

Sorry I must have missed my Japanese class... If I am not mistaken the actual translation means Divine Wind. Not airplane with explosives in it... Since we are being precise and all.

If you read the Webster's description I gave above you will see reference to wind that crushed Mongol fleet (at the bottom).


Leo "Apollo11"

[ShakyJake]

If dive bombers eat flak at 1000 feet, and torpedo bombers take flak at 500 feet, what range will kamikaze attacks take flak at? I would imagine that flak would be much more devastating for these pilots, flying into the very muzzles of the enemy guns as they were...

[rogueusmc]

Interesting question......[&:]

[Mr.Frag]

If dive bombers eat flak at 1000 feet, and torpedo bombers take flak at 500 feet, what range will kamikaze attacks take flak at? I would imagine that flak would be much more devastating for these pilots, flying into the very muzzles of the enemy guns as they were...

Yea, *but* a flaming wreak hitting you is just as effective ...

Not only does the flak have to kill the plane, it has to completely shred it to it doesn't make it to the ship. It is not as simple as you would think. Shooting it down is not a solution. One has to completely destroy it so it falls out of the sky *before* hitting the ship.

[dwesolick]

ORIGINAL: ShakyJake

If dive bombers eat flak at 1000 feet, and torpedo bombers take flak at 500 feet, what range will kamikaze attacks take flak at? I would imagine that flak would be much more devastating for these pilots, flying into the very muzzles of the enemy guns as they were...

That is a good question. I'd like to expand on it a bit if I may. What is a kamikaze impact upon a ship equivalent to in explosive power...in WitP terms I mean. A 500lb bomb? 1000lb bomb? Something else entirely? It would be nice if it was modeled so that a single kamikaze couldn't always sink a ship. (See USS Aaron Ward below, hit by 5-7 kamikazes, depending upon your source, and survived). Going by Matrix's exacting standards, it'd be my guess that they've probably thought of this[8D].

[Mr.Frag]

I took 3 of them on my CVE which is a pretty light ship and was still floating at the end of the turn. Another CVE went down with 2 hits so it is really a luck factor as to it being critical hit time or not.

[GBirkn]

(See USS Aaron Ward below, hit by 5-7 kamikazes, depending upon your source, and survived).

Now that's got to be system damage of at least 98!

[ShakyJake]

Yea, *but* a flaming wreak hitting you is just as effective ...

Not only does the flak have to kill the plane, it has to completely shred it to it doesn't make it to the ship. It is not as simple as you would think. Shooting it down is not a solution. One has to completely destroy it so it falls out of the sky *before* hitting the ship.

Yeah, I'd thought of this even as I posted what I did. Even a "destroyed" kamikaze plane could still fulfill his mission if his wreck was still able to hit the target. Still, I'm sure we've all seen those film reels on the history channel and elsewhere of those incoming kamikaze attacks. One thing I've noticed in the films is that most of those planes that were shot down lost wings or had such extensive fuselage damage (those 40mm Bofors rounds were brutal against those light airframes!) that they dropped out of the sky short of their intended targets. Ultimately, it would seem to me that these planes would be more in danger of being shot down without impacting against the target than divebombers or torpedo bombers, and I ask if this is true in the game? If so, how is this abstracted? A closer range at which they take flak? Or would the AA guns fire once at them much like a divebomber, but then get an extra attack in on the plane as they close in?

[kaleun]

One question: What kind of ship was the Aaron Ward? .
And, that gun turret sure survived quite well the disaster.

[Mr.Frag]

No debate ... Mog got about 6 through my defenses, but Pry had not set the ship classes right so I was running with 1942/42 AA levels instead. It cost him a *lot* of aircraft for the hits and overall they really didn't bother me. Had I had full AA, I doubt any would have gotten through. In later tests with the right AA levels, you almost don't need to fly CAP over an USN TF. You really have to feel for those guys. The only times they got through were due to mistakes made on the Allies side.

Obviously the second round of AA doesn't happen because it is a one way trip but the first round is at the punishing level.

One also has to remember that the guys on the AA guns were pretty well motivated after the word got around about the first suicide attack. They knew only too well it was hit the plane or die.

[Svar]

ORIGINAL: kaleun

One question: What kind of ship was the Aaron Ward? .
And, that gun turret sure survived quite well the disaster.

Read all about it.

[kaleun]

can you give me the source? What battle was it in?

[dwesolick]

ORIGINAL: kaleun

One question: What kind of ship was the Aaron Ward? .

She was originally built as a Sumner class DD, but was modified to a DM before the attack.
I was at Patriot's Point in SC last summer and got to see the DD Laffey which was also hit by 6-7 kamikazes and survived. She also saw service in Korea and Vietnam and is now a memorial (next to the very impressive Yorktown). Kind of amazing when you consider that the USS Bunker Hill (Essex class CV) took 2 kamikazes and was damn near sunk. Other DDs went down with a single hit.
Like Frag said, it all depends on luck (and superb US damage control[8D]). Glad it is modeled this way in the game.

edit: Oops, little late[8|]