OT: BiN

[Hartford688]

Apologies for off-topic, but a question for you HttR addicts.

I am really impressed with HttR - the overall "realistic" feel of the action, the detail (men, individual AFVs etc) and most of all the tremendous command programming. It is both simple and complex at the same time. Realistic is a tricky concept given you are sitting safely at a PC in a suburban Dutch house (and not in Oosterbeck in '44 at that) but this feels "right".

I am very tempted by Battles In Normandy...rather more "strategic" level (i.e. bigger area of ops!), pivotal battle etc etc. Also the KP system has had very positive reviews. Not planning to give up HttR, but feel BiN might make a break from the polders.

BUT...I am unsure if the more abstract level of KP/BiN (steps, CRT and calculating odds, hexes) is going to be a cruel shock and retrograde step. Plus the dice rolls...this looks to me like a real immersion-killer (when boardgaming in 80's dice were necessary, but in 2004 on a computer? Any illusions of being Eisenhower or Montgomery surely bite the dust). Any HttR converts here play KP also? Does KP still cut the mustard compared with HttR?

[Hertston]

Hehe.. I never could understand the "dice" thing, I noticed a reviewer moaning about that too. It has no effect on "immersion" (the whole idea of moving little counters on a hexboard - computer or not - is pretty abstract, anyway), and just lets you see where some random factors come from. It takes a very "board game" approach, and some players will make decisions based on specific odds, especially in PBEM games.

KP is a very fine (and fun) gaming system though, and I've no doubt BiN will be the same.

Before you make a decision you may well want to check out another upcoming game from Matrix, "Battlefields !", if you haven't already. I have a feeling it may be more to your taste, and although I'll almost certainly get both it's the one I'm most looking forward to.

[Fred98]

BIN will be terrific and I am keenly waiting for it.

There are many variables and for me the dice are just another variable.

There is a place for a PBEM turn based game and this is probably the best.

[W Thorne_MatrixForum]

Hartford both are excellent games. However, I like the way HTTR tracks units. For example when I send a Battalion into battle I know how many men are going in and after the fight is over I can see what is left. Then, do I pull them from the line and put them in reserve, or get them ready to attack again. I like having a feel of exactly what shape my Companies, Battalions, Regiments, or Divisions are in.

Of coarse you could just break down and buy both.

[Rainbow7]

I have both, though right now I'm in more of a KP mode. But both are fantastic games! The dice rolls are just bringing to the fore what might otherwise be hidden - but the abstractions overall (I believe) are appropriate for this game. And for what it's worth, I'm having the best time I've had in years with a game while currently playing in the KP "Rommel" pbem tournament.

BiN looks to be even better as it's improving on a successful design.

[Tzar007]

I have both, although I haven't played KP for a while now. Although it does not break any new ground, I consider KP one of the best hex-and turn-based wargame on the market. I am sure the BIN game will be as well done as KP, although I guess it might make for a less mobile game than KP considering the protracted and static nature of the Normandy fighting in the first few weeks.

I admit I feel much more immersed with the gameplay style of HTTR though, and moreover I am somewhat depressed now in playing traditional hex and turn-based wargames because of the HUGE amounts of units to move by yourself in some scenarios. After being used to the command chain style of HTTR, I feel I am wasting my time when I need every turn to check out and move individually the 500-odd units available in some of the large scenarios of turn and hex-based wargames such as HPS' ones.

These days I am either playing HTTR, or Combat Mission, for more tactical immersion.

Like Hertson, I am curious though about Battlefields. It is another hex and turn-based wargame, but it sounds pretty much right from an operational perspective, with a very flexible command system, and a WEGO turn mechanism much more superior to the traditional and cheatable I GO YOU GO.

[Hartford688]

Thanks!

You convinced me, will fish out the old plastic friend when it comes out (soon I hope). Just wanted to check that it was still worthwhile compared to HttR, and from what you say it sounds fun.

Re Battlefields, somehow I had missed that (bizarre, given how much time I spend reading these forums)...will keep an eye out and see how it progresses. Impression is that it has been seeing some slippage? I am also a Harpoon III player, so the Harpoon 4 "coming soon" experience has scarred me. That said, Battlefields looks more like a "when" rather than "if".

Cheers all. Now, back to getting given a kicking in "Devil's Hill".

[freeboy]

Notes, odds tables with variable results hapen in many games, K pocket/ TAO just show them up front... big vote for k pocket as a two player.. pretty easy to beat the ia