AI does cheat!

[afspret]

I was playing against AI as the allied player in Scen 17 and found out first hand, and the hard way, that the AI cheats, BIG TIME!

It is early Sept 42 and the AI sent 5 TF, 3 with a total of 7 CV/CVLs, to cover a supply run to Lunga. I countered with a single TF with 5 CVs(Enterprise, Hornet, Yorktown, Saratoga & Wasp), commanded by Adm Mitscher, supposedly an "aggresive carrier commander", and got womped on big time!

My carrier air attacked first, but in several uncoordinated and progresively smaller waves and without fighter escort (I had specifically set 2 fighter squadrons for escort duties). I lost more than 80 of my SBDs and almost all my TBFs & TBDs. In return for these loses I scored a total of 6 bomb hits and no torpedo hits!

When the AI hit, the first wave was in one big coordinated attack, which was countered by my 150 F4Fs and I think I was lucky to have shot down maybe 15 of the attackers. This was followed by a couple more smaller attacks and by the end of the turn I lost 3 CVs and 2 DDs with the other two CVs badly damaged along with a couple of CAs. I lost the other 2 CVs on the next turn because they couldn't get out of range fast enough and I had no fighters in escort range, the CAs got away.

So for those of you who have doubts about or were wondering if the AI cheats, well I think I can safely say that it does, I mean how else can one explain how the above happened?

[Fred98]

Nobody cares. Its only the AI. Its poor enough as it is.

[Drex]

Another good reason for playing pbem!

[2Stepper]

ORIGINAL: afspret

So for those of you who have doubts about or were wondering if the AI cheats, well I think I can safely say that it does, I mean how else can one explain how the above happened?

Okay, I'll bite on why... There are a few reasons... Pilot skills involved for one. You said he had 7 CV's which obviously means you're playing one of the bits where Midway didn't happen... SO... with that in mind you're obviously taking on 7 carriers worth of ELITE aircrews. They know their stuff and are combat tested with Pearl and other smaller engagements. The difference is pilots with experience in the 80s and 90s to your american pilots with experience in the 60s to around 70.

In an obvious overmatch like that theres really only one result baring a "midway like" surprise... your going to get thumped and thumped BAD...

Happened to me on more'n one occasion.

[DoomedMantis]

The Ai cheats in many ways, but your example isnt one of them. You were just unlucky to have uncordinated attacks, but the rest seems reasonable considering the experience of your crews and commanders.

Also shooting down so little if you had 150 planes in the air seems to be that your CAp was at the wrong height more than anything else.

[jcjordan]

Many's the time early in the game I've played the Allies vs AI & always had piecemeal attacks by my air units but as the game goes on there is some kind of switch in the programming I think where the Allied attacks become coordinated. The only thing I found as a short-coming to this, is the be-everywhere attack everywhere CAP. You're sure to lose your entire stiking force if it comes in piecemeal with little or no escorts when facing 100+ CAP at every attack minus the few losses you create. Also the F4F3 & 4 are little match to the Zeros regardless of experience, the only way they can win out is by attrition when you can get 5 CV's putting 100+ of CAP over your TF to his 80+ escorts. The only way I've found to combat the AI IJN early on is to be sure to be near some ground LRCAP like P40's that can help greatly in attrition as the P40's seem to give a little better account of themselves. Just my experiences

[Deathtreader]

Hi all,

There used to be a few threads on this in the pre-hacker forum (may he/she rot in.....). There were a few of the veteran gamers such as Mogami, Mr. Frag, Feinder et al running scads of "test" games to identify "undocumented features". Seems to me that one of the many results of these "lost" tests was that carrier admirals with high aggressive ratings had a pronounced tendency to launch multiple small strikes over a more cautious admiral's higher likelyhood of launching fewer but larger ones. This pre-supposed that skill levels were more or less equal. I know. I know.... [>:]. Anybody else remember those??

Rob.

[2ndACR]

You have met the "Death Star" and you are his.

I use the RUN AWAY method of fighting it. Let my land a/c beat up on it awhile before I try anything. Or should I say let him beat up on my land a/c.

[barbarrossa]

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

You have met the "Death Star" and you are his.

I use the RUN AWAY method of fighting it. Let my land a/c beat up on it awhile before I try anything. Or should I say let him beat up on my land a/c.

Yep, welcome to Alderaan.

Try some port strikes with B-17's on Rabaul after recon flights see them in port. You can get some cheap hits and even the odds. But fly your strikes at altitude above the AA.

[scorryuk]

ORIGINAL: afspret

I was playing against AI as the allied player in Scen 17 and found out first hand, and the hard way, that the AI cheats, BIG TIME!

It is early Sept 42 and the AI sent 5 TF, 3 with a total of 7 CV/CVLs, to cover a supply run to Lunga. I countered with a single TF with 5 CVs(Enterprise, Hornet, Yorktown, Saratoga & Wasp), commanded by Adm Mitscher, supposedly an "aggresive carrier commander", and got womped on big time!

My carrier air attacked first, but in several uncoordinated and progresively smaller waves and without fighter escort (I had specifically set 2 fighter squadrons for escort duties). I lost more than 80 of my SBDs and almost all my TBFs & TBDs. In return for these loses I scored a total of 6 bomb hits and no torpedo hits!

When the AI hit, the first wave was in one big coordinated attack, which was countered by my 150 F4Fs and I think I was lucky to have shot down maybe 15 of the attackers. This was followed by a couple more smaller attacks and by the end of the turn I lost 3 CVs and 2 DDs with the other two CVs badly damaged along with a couple of CAs. I lost the other 2 CVs on the next turn because they couldn't get out of range fast enough and I had no fighters in escort range, the CAs got away.

So for those of you who have doubts about or were wondering if the AI cheats, well I think I can safely say that it does, I mean how else can one explain how the above happened?

Frustrating, I know. But there are a few things you can change to even things a little. Attacking over a long range, in bad weather or when TF has uses lot of op points in turn (after moving long distance) can affect co-ordination. Would add Commander to that list but you already have good one. Putting dive bombers above 14,000ft helps them attack in larger groups (& maybe arrive at target in greater numbers, only theory). Also in defence and attack try putting CAP at different levels. 1 flight a 9,000 , 1 at 12,000 and so on. Also make sure pilots have good exp. , high morale and low fatigue before engaging IJN. If not then avoid contact until your forces are stronger. Know this is hard when his TF is beating crap out of your forces but has to be done. Sooner or later his pilots tire, he gets op. damage and must retire. If you want to try and keep him from going to close to your bases try using a surface fleet when retire option enabled to push forward on his position during night, but retreat in morning. Should force him to be very cautious with CVs. Use subs and mines in choke points to try a get a lucky hit on a CV. Meanwhile blood your aircraft against soft targets. Try a have them doing something when fatigue is low, even if it is only naval search. And when it finally becomes time to attack, close distance as much as possible to be able to use torp. planes. This will give him multiple targets at 2 distinctly different attitudes to contend with.

[Toro]

scorryuk is right on with his advice. Mostly, if you see a TF of IJN with 7 (or 6 or 5) CVs, run away! Let them run amok for a while, gain op damage, then begin your ops. When I see large CVTFs like this, I always consider it a good time to park my ships and repair damage. Then, when you start your ops, a few of theirs will come out and you can pounce them.

Sorry, but I don't see a cheat here...

[Von Rom]

Basically, in Sept/42 the IJN CVs and air crews are elite.

Facing 7 IJN CVs vs 5 US CVs is asking for disaster.

Use hit and run tactics instead.

Sooner or later, the IJN will split off its CVs, and strike them when you feel there are only one or two IJN CVs in a TF.

Also, try hitting the IJN landing forces with your CVs. This may draw some (but not all IJN CVs) towards your CV forces. With those IJN CV TFs split, then it would be time to strike.

Also, try using your land based air to wear down the IJN CV air strikes.

Caution is the by word