P51s behave like A-10 thunderbolts

Marder_MatrixForum · Post by **Marder_MatrixForum** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 6:20 pm

Why can i hide my units in woods, with a lot of smoke around it and many enemy units around them, and the P51s or P47 always(!) pick up my units like a A-10 with mavericks or an Apache?

I know this topic is discussed a lot before, but i just wanna ask what are the latest informations about this?

Isn´t there a way to change this?

Marder

skukko · Post by **skukko** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 7:57 pm

I haven't tested systematically, but in 7.11-beta ACs behave very much as before, in good and bad. I have numerous times tried to attack against infantry, assumed tank or arty pieces, and usually I do get truck or two killed by pilots. Preassigned missions do work as they should, in smaller planes, haven't tested Bombsquads.

I think that this AC-thing can't be modelled so that it satisfys all gamers. If they don't act as you want, count it as happenings of war, so I do.

Still the best way to protect is to keep lowvalue recon ahead your spearhead and keep empty trucks in flanks and in open so that they can be seen by pilots from long range. And buy some AA...

mosh

AbsntMndedProf · Post by **AbsntMndedProf** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 8:48 pm

Marder posted:
Why can i hide my units in woods, with a lot of smoke around it and many enemy units around them, and the P51s or P47 always(!) pick up my units like a A-10 with mavericks or an Apache?

One idea would be to go to the preferences screen and reduce your computer opponent's 'searching' ability.

Eric Maietta

Alexandra · Post by **Alexandra** » Tue Sep 25, 2001 9:28 pm

Another way to minimize the effects of air strikes is to be at danger close range of the enemy. Be right in his hexes, or adjacent to them. That way he takes as much, if not more, damage than you.

And it's sweet to see that infantry platoon that's survived a zillion rounds of yours die to thier own sides bombs <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Alex

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:03 am

Why can i hide my units in woods, with a lot of smoke around it and many enemy units around them, and the P51s or P47 always(!) pick up my units like a A-10 with mavericks or an Apache?

Part of the reason "IRL" would be exactly because you have enemy units around them. If the CAS is called on target by a FAC, who presumably has marked the target with colored smoke/WP, assuming the enemy forces alluded to above are infantry, then the crews simply look for "vehicles" in that location-cleared in by the FAC they drop ordnance. Worst case, they are simply cleared to unload in that area, with the frat danger increasing greatly. In game terms, they drop at reduced effectiveness with greater chance of scatter.
In either instance, again "IRL" commanders would try to get the word out that a strike was inbound, and friendlies would start to pull back. (Though I can't confirm, I believe Western Allies at least had a "danger close" procedure similar to that used today.)
If however, the CAS is a target of opportunity mission (not unlike "kill boxes" today), then the crews are basically picking their targets, and the chance of missing the target, and frats,in the situation you describe is much higher.
The issue of CAS sorties being expended on trucks also depends on the mission. If the mission was to hit enemy trans/vehicles in the "area", ie assuming no FAC requested mission, then its plausible that crews would go after trucks etc. Otherwise, yes, this is a problem; CL is supposed to readdress the whole mechanics of CAS so I guess we'll have to wait and see <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Thu Sep 27, 2001 9:53 am

Originally posted by Grumble:

In either instance, again "IRL" commanders would try to get the word out that a strike was inbound, and friendlies would start to pull back. (Though I can't confirm, I believe Western Allies at least had a "danger close" procedure similar to that used today.)

All sides did have (not sure about Soviet forces, though) a 'safe distance' procedure for arty barrages and airstrikes/bombing. At least prior to launching infantry/armor attacks. Then again, it was not at all times that the troops themselves knew about incoming fire, mostly due to poor communications from HQ units.. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Thu Sep 27, 2001 8:29 pm

Yes, I agree, though like you not sure what the wartime Soviet procedures were, if any.
However, I probably didn't make myself clear: "Danger Close" is a procedure whereby one may call in airstrikes inside the "safe distance", more or less by the FAC acknowledging the risk, and confirming the request.
My guess is, the Western Allies who in NW Europe anyway, had a pretty fair "Tactical Air Control System", used some procedure similiar to this.
Break/Break
Strictly speaking, the REAL effect of Allied airpower in WW2 at the tactical level was the interdiction of units as they moved to contact, and their transportation assets, not so much in the classic "CAS" role.