WitP Copy Protection

[Mr.Frag]

And from the soapbox that was Mr. Frag.

Seriously, I get so pissed off when people come up with these *lame* excuses for not wanting copy protection. It's like *they* think we are all stupid and were born yesterday.

[tsimmonds]

"But Mr. Frag, me and my buds all share around our music for free, how is a game any different? Why should we pay for it if we can get it free?"[:@]
</sarcasm>

[Damien Thorn]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
Did I mention that I find pirates to be the lowest order of scum of the earth? People who steal should be treated by the old school rules ... chop their hand off! [:-]

How very 'Taliban' of you.

There *is* no excuse that makes it acceptable. All this crap about *rights* is exactly that ... *crap*. You have one *right* and only one. Keep your money in your pocket when in the store and say "no". Should you not exercise that "right", you have no others.

Actually, copywrite laws in this country have become very skewed towards major corporations in the past 10 years or so. The laws on the duration of copyrites was extended recently when Disney was about to lose the copywrite on its characters. There used to be such a thing as 'fair use' but coporations have been chipping away at that over the years. Their eventual goal is where you own nothing oftheproduct but only license 'uses' of it. They tried this with the music industry about a decade ago with the Divx scheme.

Companies should be able to enjoy a period of time after releasing thier product where they have exclusive control over it and get all ofthe profits. After that period of time, it should become public domain and allow others to copy or modify it. This is how life-saving medicines work. Why shouldwe give more protection to Sony music industries than we do to a company that is inventing life-saving medicine? Too many of our poilitians have been bough off by the fat cat corporations. [:@] The "Digital Millinium Copyrite Act" should be ripped up and the people who authored it should be publicly hung!!

This is exactly what I am talking about. You happen to have one of those substandard CD drives that has problems reading the digital fingerprint off the disk. You will also have problems with a lot of other copy protected games as well.

Actually, I paid quite a bit for my DVD-drive and I don't consider it substandard. It never had a problem reading the UV disk until version 2.30. I don't know what they did in that version but something messed it up. Currently I use the no-cd patch as a workaround.

[Mr.Frag]

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

"But Mr. Frag, me and my buds all share around our music for free, how is a game any different? Why should we pay for it if we can get it free?"[:@]

So, can I *share* your wife? [:'(]

Whats the difference eh? Where do you draw the line? Perhaps I can come *share* your car for a joyride. How about I share your Credit Card number? How about your bank account number and password? [X(]

After all, it's only sharing right? [:D]

[Mr.Frag]

Actually, I paid quite a bit for my DVD-drive and I don't consider it substandard. It never had a problem reading the UV disk until version 2.30. I don't know what they did in that version but something messed it up. Currently I use the no-cd patch as a workaround.

I feel for you that you were ripped off with your DVD drive, but that does not change the fact that you were ripped off. If it supported the orange book standards, it would play the CD just dandy like the thousands of us who had no problem with 2.30's upgraded SecureRom protection.

[tsimmonds]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

"But Mr. Frag, me and my buds all share around our music for free, how is a game any different? Why should we pay for it if we can get it free?"[:@]
</sarcasm>

So, can I *share* your wife? [:'(]

Whats the difference eh? Where do you draw the line? Perhaps I can come *share* your car for a joyride. How about I share your Credit Card number? How about your bank account number and password? [X(]

After all, it's only sharing right? [:D]

That was a, I say that was a joke, son.

[Adnan Meshuggi]

Hm...i bet you can´t stop piracy...

one side could say saw of their fingers (are you an Taliban ? Hey, Marines, here is one of these .... BANG... and Mr. Frag left this continuum to visit an higher level [:)]) because they steal others say everything should be free (okay, give me your money, i share it with you Damien Thorn)

Honestly, if you want something, you have to buy it. But - like FarCry, a demo you can test the game is perfect. I tested the game and i will buy it (in a few months if it is cheaper)

A game like WITP will be copied often, but the people who just copy it will not pay it - so they are no loss.
The total bs about licence.... if i give money for a product i want the right to use it as often as i want. Also i say, if these terrorists from Microsoft and other companies who give a shit about workable or stability want money from me, they have to do some work. I buy a product, not an alpha version.

In a few years you not longer will own your own things, but you will licence them... and if this licence is run out, you are a criminal.... that make me sad and angry.

So please do not mix the criminals (the people who crack a software, sell it or wouldn´t buy a progam) with the collectors... they collect anything but would never buy one part of it (yes, it is criminal, and yes, it isn´t right that they own things they hadn´t paid for, but they have not the money and the will to buy for example the game so they do not damage the profit of a company.

in earlier years i tested a lot games, but even as a kid i bought the games i liked (nearly all gg-games, even if they were allways quite expensive!) because they had depht and a long playable time...

today a game has 40 hours of time to play, 30.000 bugs, 14 patches before you could play it and next to cool graphic nothing worth to look for... i wouldn´t buy such games - 15 years ago, i had bought some such games (i was tricked (yeah i am a stupid guy) but i learned).

I think for a game like UV or WitP, the people work such a long time, it is okay to give money and not to trick. The big companies who throw in just bad progammed games with so much bugs you can´t play it, i feel not sorry.

And if these companies try to punish the right of owning things, i fight against em (i never bought a music cd after they started their campagin a few years ago - sometimes i get one for christmess or similar, but no money from me for these .... errr selfcensored. The same with Microsoft. I use only such products i got for nothing/that were in a package of my new computer... from me no extra cent for them)

But honestly, if Matrix want to protect its rights i understand and accept it. As long as the performance does not suffer it is okay...
i suggest that everybody MUST be logged as a poster and has to recive a special number (that is locked to the person). If someone break the rule, he will be named offical here and some of the guys who were at the marines visit the pirate (so everybody is happy and Mr. Frag could chop off some heads (instead of fingers) [:D]

Peace brothers....

i just want the game... just say how much.

[freeboy]

Why do we copy protect or have copyright laws? To insure artists, scientist or others.. book writers the list goes on and on... to insure these people they receive the reward of the labor. One at a time... seemed to be the rule for years... I purchased one book, movie etc.. and I could do with as I deemed fit. Make a copy for myself only.. keeping the original safe was the gray area... I had actually bought the "right" what about photocopying a college text for two weeks worth of work... and then destroying it? Well, it was a violation of the law, but not the intent. My University bought multiple copies of a book, and my use of the paper copy was limited and permanently ended after the use.. often days after. OK so did I break the spirit of the law? Now fast forward from 80's to 2004, and we see wholesale pirating by use of a digital medium where I could easily, and illegally share repeatedly a song, book, movie etc without paying for my "use".

Does this violate the spirit (or intent for those out there that dislike the term)????
My take is.." absolutely".. to say this makes big fat cats rich... welcome to the free market. Where those who risk creating a protected item have a risk/reward payoff. So I do take exception to the "we all share" statement above... But if you Bought a copy and lent that ..and then had no access while it was used.. again you paid for the use of [>:][>:] ok enough

Please support matrix and 2by 3 today so we can have these types of games tomorrow

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Stale comment now maybe, but Xargon..

"But a copy doesn't always work when they want the CD in the drive."

My definition of copy is, if it IS a copy, then it WILL play exactly like the REAL thing. Otherwise you did NOT copy the cd at all.

[Culiacan Mexico]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
You get it, it works. You trash it too bad/so sad but no one really cares.

[:D]

The customer relation skills are... interesting.

[freeboy]

Lioke my favorite; "build a bridge a get over it "[:-]
Remember Frag is a member of the forum not a employee... not that anyone would be so rude to a customer

[kaleun]

Frag, I played UV from my laptop. Eventually my original CD was damaged (broke in half); I inquired from matrix about a replacement CD, since I did not want to pay for the whole thing again, 9-10 months before WITPcame out, I got no response.
So this ruined a couple of e-mail games. Someone at the forum e-mailed me a no-cd crack, but the security of my e-mail server never let me download it.
Bottom line is: Yes CDs get damaged, break, get eaten by dogs, etc. I COMPLETELY agree that piracy protection is a must. I do not let anyone copy my software, nor do I use pirated software, however, a system for registered users to replace damaged media should be available.

[freeboy]

kaleun,
From my last digi download from Matrix, you could both download and get a cd... so if this stand truue for witp.. then no cd will be required and the cd in the mail will be my backup... surorised about the lack of Matrix response.. did you try calling someone in e-store support? If Matrix was my company replacing damaged cd's to "registered" , not licensed, users would be ok. This is one of those trust issues...
Any idea if the last update is closer to GOLD? [:D][:D][:D]
anyone? [8D]

[kaleun]

My last purchase from Matrix was via digital download, and yes, I also ordered the CD for backup purpose. I did e-mail customer service, but they never go back to me.
Now, I hear WITP will be available for digital download, so if the system is the same as for the Battles on the Danube, it will have a simple "enter a serial #" and it will be good to go.
I am not dissing Matrix, I am just stating that accidents do happen, and it is just good customer service to offer replacement CDs. BTW If I was Matrix, I would require the return of the damaged media.
To quote Ronald Reagan "Trust but verify"[:)]

[carnifex]

Mr. Frag:

All this crap about *rights* is exactly that ... *crap*. You have one *right* and only one. Keep your money in your pocket when in the store and say "no". Should you not exercise that "right", you have no others.

Yeah, thank god you're not in charge of anything.

First of all, you sound confused. When I buy the software, I am paying for the right to use that software, not the media that it's on. In effect I am purchasing a single-user license, and it doesn't matter if I have two copies or two hundred as long as I abide by the single-user license and not give copies to others or use several copies at the same time.

Second, where I live all software sold is covered by this: "Users may not make a copy of a piece of software for any other reason than as an archival back-up without permission of the copyright holder." This is from Section 117 of the U.S. Copyright Code, which specifically allows this as a safeguard against damage or destruction.

You may not be aware of your rights in Canada, but a the Canadian Copyright laws similarly state that "The owner of an authorized and legitimate copy of a piece of software may reproduce a single copy of the software, for backup purposes, provided that the single backup copy is destroyed immediately once the person ceases to be the owner of the authorized copy of the software".

I believe the original poster intends to copy for archival back-up purposes, so all your screaming about pirates doesn't apply. It sounds like you have some personal issues, with all that gleeful destroying people's hard drives drivel. You sound like you're a little short in the empathy department telling people too bad that they got a sub-standard drive or they should be more careful because it's their own fault that they are not as careful or lucky as you. You can live your own inconsiderate way but people who pay good money for some software only to have it ruined because of fat fingers or inquisitive children have my sympathy. More than that, they have a right to make a back-up.

The manufacturer is under no obligation to make copying easy. They can put all kinds of copy protection on it, but it is not illegal for the end-user to circumvent that copy protection if they are able to as long as they are making archival back-ups, and the manufacturer is without legal recourse, no matter what they put in the EULA.

[freeboy]

An interesting topic is the courts(us) have ordered a stop to sales of a dvd burning software..
so are we gold yet... [:D][:D][:D]

[Tophat]

Hmmmn,
I don't post much,but this nonsense from Frag struck a nerve:

Did I mention that I find pirates to be the lowest order of scum of the earth? People who steal should be treated by the old school rules ... chop their hand off!


Maybe you better rephrase this...........or simply move the mideast where your views are shared.

[Adnan Meshuggi]

No i thnk you are wrong.
If you violate a copy defence system you do an illeagal thing... because the cd defence system was build in to protect the data and breaking the code manipulate the data you own a licence. Because most companies forbid in their general agreement conclusions to violate or change the code you do an illegal thing.

Whole idea is, that the user in the end just pay a montly rent for hard/software and own nothing. So old products give money or the customer has to rent new equippment.

Personally i will be Pirate Nr. 1 if this will come true. I want to buy something and not to rent it. If i pay x dollars for something (Say a licence) i want to own this licence. Not to pay monthly. We will see how the future will develop.

But piracy is bad - with demos and good working games (like witp - so please give it to us) there should be no problem to test a game and decide what you want to buy and what not. So the programmer have to work harder because everybody could test a game before he spend his money. Basically i did exactly this as i was young. Games i loved i bought, games i saw, i tested and if the first hour of playing was shit, i cleaned the disk of my amiga. The game Elite i own 3 times... as a ZX Spectrum, Amiga and PC-Version.... quite mad...[:)]

[kaleun]

No Adnan, if the laws in your country state that you have the right to do something, for instance, make a backup copy, then it is legal to do so. If the laws do not forbid the person who sells it to try to prevent you from doing so, then that is legal too.
In a recent case in (I believe Sweden, but could be another Scandinavian country) the courts found in favor of a hacker who made software to allow for copying of copy protected DVDs. The rationale of the case was precisely that the owners of the DVDs had the right to make backup copies.
On the other hand, if the copyright owner does not want to sell you the license, but only to rent it to you, that is also his prerogative. That is what property and the free market is all about.

[Damien Thorn]

I loaned a book to a friend last week. She didn't buy the right to read it so did I break the law? I'd hate for someone to chop off her hand. [X(]
While we're at it, maybe we should eliminate the entire library system. Isn't it just a low-tech version of file sharing?