Allied Player vs Japan AI

[Bulldog61]

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

Some comments and questions:

1 - The Wake garrison seemed to be defeated rather easily. Do they start out with poor readiness or morale?

2 - I noticed that in the main surface action between the Brit fleet and the Japanese that one Brit cruiser was hit 52 times while the rest got off rather lightly.

3 - When your surface fleets intercept and blast the enemy invasion fleets, do the invasion fleets flee away from the landing zone or do they continue to unload troops?

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

As for # 1 Sometimes Wake falls on the first attack but usually it holds to late December and in the current game I'm playing It's still there in March 42.

As for # 2 generally the results are a little better distributed, but on ocasion you can see some strange things.

As for #3 Yes, I just had an ABDA TF intercept an IJN Transport TF landing troops at Batavia in early March 42. Sunk several transports and the rest left the hex (scattered). Of course next turn the KB sunk both my CA's, 2 CL's nd 2 DD's in that TF. Won't be able to do that again.

[Von Rom]

ORIGINAL: Mogami

Hi, In the period before Guadalcanal Japanese submarines sank 184 merchant ships of 907,000 tons. (more then the Allied submarines sank during the same period) After the Solomons Campaign Japanese submarines were more and more used in a supply role.
If the player sends the Japanese submarines to interdict allied supply routes he will sink more merchants. If he uses them to intercept allied warships he will sink fewer merchants and lose more submarines. If he uses them as supply boats he will sink nothing and his losses will depend on the amount of enemy ASW deployed around those bases he is attempting to supply.

Sounds good Mogami [:)]

[Von Rom]

This is one anomally I noticed in the ground combat:



Ground combat at Johore Bahru

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 14834 troops, 165 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 20466 troops, 94 guns, 9 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Johore Bahru base !!!

Japanese ground losses:
154 casualties reported
Guns lost 6

Allied ground losses:
35921 casualties reported
Guns lost 117
Vehicles lost 1


Hmmm, 154 vs 35,921 casualties? Am I assuming that these also include those who surrendered as well as those who were killed and wounded?

[Mr.Frag]

Hmmm, 154 vs 35,921 casualties? Am I assuming that these also include those who surrendered as well as those were killed and wounded?

FoW. Kills are 1, Disabled are 1/2, gets a bit blurry.

[DoomedMantis]

Exactly its the troops that surrendered.

You will notice that although there are more troops defending, there were still odds of 4-1. This is because the troops are all troops (including second line and base units) and second line troops dont have any assualt value which the odds are worked out on.

[Von Rom]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Heres the score ... as You can see, the Allied troop losses are a major portion of the games score. Certainly a difference fro UV where popping off some CV's won the game. [;)]

I may have missed the information about what "political points" are and how they are earned and/or lost.

I would appreciate some info about it [:)]

Thanks

[DoomedMantis]

PP's are used to change unit leaders, reassign units to different HQ's etc

There is more info in the FAQ's

[DoomedMantis]

you get 50 per day and they cant be lost only used

[DoomedMantis]

sorry they can be lost if you dont withdraw British ships marked for return in time

[pad152]

Frag

I know you have been very aggresive so far (major surface attacks, carrier attack on TF's at Wake, etc).

Comments:

1. Japanese air losses are less then 2to1, this seems like very heavy losses at this stage in the war. This makes me worry about AI pilot management, will Japanese air power become inefective in late 42?

2. Japan in 30 days lost 49 ships? If this continues (6 months = 294 ships) will Japan still be around in 1943?

3. The AI did not cover the wake landings with any aircover? This is the perfect place to ambush the US carriers early in the war!!

[mogami]

Hi Historically the first attempt to take Wake had no aircover. (The CV are on way back from PH) 2 CV were sent to help the 2nd attempt.

49 ships, but of what type? I think the Japanese lost 51 ships in the SRA. And prehaps another 10 outside the SRA before May 1942. (including submarines) Small escorts and mine sweepers get rebuilt. (lose one have one added to production)

Japanese op loss do seen rather high. I don't know if Frag has stood down every group that is not involved in combat. Oh wait it's the AI never mind. It's flying groups a human would have stood down.

[pad152]

Mogami

Wake, My concern it what we saw in UV, the AI making landings with no aircover. If the AI is going to invade any location so close to US forces (the US have carriers) it should have aircover (historical or not). There are places on the map the AI should never go with out air cover.

You talk about 51 ships lost in 6 months (Dec 41 - May 42), I'm talking about 49 ships lost in 1 month (including 1 CVL, 2CA's), (49 ships per month = 294 ships by May 42).

Air losses 176 operation losses??? Japan is already losing the air war in the first 30 days. The pilot pool is going to be empty in the first 60days of the war! My concern is the AI pilot management, air groups with low experince = a turkey shoot in mid 42', the allies won't need F4U's. In UV once a airgroup was broken (low moral, low experince) it never recovered.
Each airgroup has hard numbers (moral, experince) The AI should be able to do hard and fast checks on airgroups.
(experince + moral) is 50 + 50 <= 100, stand down
(experince + moral) is 40 + 40 <= 80, training Ground school
(experince + moral) is 30 + 30 <= 50, disband

Now I know this is only one AAR, I don't know how different it would play out over multiple times. I also know you and Frag know by now what works against the Japanese or Allied player, AI or not, but the Japanese (AI or not) should be kicking the allies butt, for the first 60-90 days of the war.

[Mr.Frag]

Look at the numbers:

Japan vs Allies

377 vs 549 (knock 88 off the 377 for a little stunt I pulled)

53 vs 2683

412 vs 309 (I was being really rough on the AI)

842 vs 3541

Thats better then 3:1 points. Japan only needs 3:1 to win.

Singapore and PI will fall with the rest of the SRA and triple the points in favour of Japan as the troops surrender. The opening is *always* rough because of all the aircraft and ships in close proximity.

Ignore VP for bases because they change hands.

You also have to factor in that Japan is starting off attacking over long distances with her aircraft until the forward bases come online. It costs ops to fly at the edge of your range.

[Pascal_slith]

Did you have two CV's in the area of Wake when you hit it?

[ADavidB]

ORIGINAL: MikeKraemer

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

Some comments and questions:

1 - The Wake garrison seemed to be defeated rather easily. Do they start out with poor readiness or morale?

2 - I noticed that in the main surface action between the Brit fleet and the Japanese that one Brit cruiser was hit 52 times while the rest got off rather lightly.

3 - When your surface fleets intercept and blast the enemy invasion fleets, do the invasion fleets flee away from the landing zone or do they continue to unload troops?

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

As for # 1 Sometimes Wake falls on the first attack but usually it holds to late December and in the current game I'm playing It's still there in March 42.

As for # 2 generally the results are a little better distributed, but on ocasion you can see some strange things.

As for #3 Yes, I just had an ABDA TF intercept an IJN Transport TF landing troops at Batavia in early March 42. Sunk several transports and the rest left the hex (scattered). Of course next turn the KB sunk both my CA's, 2 CL's nd 2 DD's in that TF. Won't be able to do that again.

Thanks Mike, that sounds reasonable.

Dave Baranyi

[Grotius]

Mr. Frag, you may have answered this and I may have missed it. How much variation do you see in the AI from one game to the next?

[tsimmonds]

Looks like you are doing three day turns? Could this partly explain POW and Repulse's early immunity; the Japanese LBA were not set to naval attack...?

[Von Rom]

Mr. Frag:

Thanks so far for the AAR. I know all you testers must have worked your butts off on this game.

Question:

As I understand it, when playing the Allies, the player can allow the AI to handle other Allied theatres while the player can opt to control just one. This would probably give the AI more of an edge.

In this AAR are you controlling all Allied theatres?

[Mr.Frag]

Looks like you are doing three day turns? Could this partly explain POW and Repulse's early immunity; the Japanese LBA were not set to naval attack...?

Nope, I was simply posting 3 turns at once with the reports because that is about the limit size per message.

Skill & Luck [:D] You will note the Nell's & Betty's came calling for me multiple times. I had pretty much every fighter within range flight LRCAP over this group to scare them off.

I was running the whole thing except subs (auto - takes a extra couple of hours to deal with subs too)

Mr. Frag, you may have answered this and I may have missed it. How much variation do you see in the AI from one game to the next?

No two will ever be the same after turn #1. That was the first time I saw the ai hook around and snag Davao, thats normally a Mogami move [X(]

Did you have two CV's in the area of Wake when you hit it?

Yep, both cv's but they start with very short air groups.

[pry]

No two will ever be the same after turn #1. That was the first time I saw the ai hook around and snag Davao, thats normally a Mogami move

I'll second that, in my current game to test the latest tweaks, The Japanese AI pushed a carrier TF south of Java and wasted all my Task Forces loaded with all my carefully plundered oil from the DEI bound for Oz. I have NEVER seen the AI do that before and the kicker was that it sent another carrier TF to relieve the 1st to keep the way south blocked until it is too late to get anything else out.

While it will never be as good as a human opponent I think folks are going to be surprised, this AI will give you a game and throw you some totally unexpected curveballs when you least expect it.

{Edit A Picture is worth a thousand words}