Tanaka and Nishimura courtmartialled after the worst IJN show ever seen

[AmiralLaurent]

The date is the night of July 1st-2ns, 1943 (yes 1943).

This is a scen 17 where 6 IJN CV/CVL were sunk in May and August 1942 and so IJN was on teh defensive, with agressive raiding, since this date.

Allied now held Irau, Lunga, Tulagi, Gili GIli and Wau, the last two taken during the month of June. Another IJN CV has been sunk but the surface fleet is intact and very strong.

On the other hand, 3 modern USN BB are been damaged (propbably badly, I wonder if one has not been scuttled) during the invasion of GG by mines and Betties.

And now the USN CV TF is sailing between Gili Gili and Rabaul. So the surface fleet leaves Rabaul to intercept at night the USN CV TF and his strong surface escort force, where only cruisers were seen.

I was almost sure to find the USN CV TF at one precise spot, as I had several TF around Madang-Lae and it would be logical for my opponent to sail towards them. To do that it will be at BB range from Rabaul during the night so I sent:
1) Tanaka with 4 BB, 5 CA, 1 CL and 5 DD
2) Nishimura with 3 BB, 5 CA, 1 CL and 6 DD
(That is a strong IJN fleet in mid-1943, isn't it ? I have more CL and DD but elswhere)

It was excepted that the CA/CL/DD of the USN surface force would be badly hit and that at least one of the IJN TF reaches the CV TF and may sink some of the CLAA escorting them.... and perhaps put one shell or two on the CVs.

That was the plan.

The USN fleet was at the excepted position and the battle begins when Scott surprises Tanaka.

The USN fleet has 4 CA, 2 CL (Montpelier type, as strong as an IJN CA) and 12 DD.

Tanaka attacked twice this TF and Nishimura then attacked twice. None of them reached the CV TF.

But that was more or less excepted.

What was not excepted is that the IJN lost the naval surface battle....

The 7 BB were unable to score any hit during the battle, except some 5in hits on CA, doing nothing. At least the IJN BB escape without damage.

No ship sink during the battle. As for ships ending the battle with 'on fire' or/and 'heavy damage' status, they were 2 CA and 7 DD on IJN side and 1 CL and 8 DD on USN side.

I think maybe 4 USN DD will be scuttled by my opponent. All others should be saved. On the other hand, my two CA and had least one DD had been so hard hit that they would have been scuttled in the evening.

The USN carrier planes, grounded by clouds in the morning, solved the problem in the afternoon, sinking the 3 doomed ships and also two other damaged DD that had not damaged to reach Rabaul, that remained cloud covered all day.

I think ADM Scott won a Medal of Honor this night. Tanaka and Nishimura will maybe lead barges TF next time they leave port. Men are always needed to man barges (I lost 265 in this game.. my count, not the game count as none are shown in the sunk list).

As a sidenote, the USN CL in 1943 are really deadly ships. I played 3 IJN games in 1943 and in the last month (in real time) had 3 naval battles against those. In each the USN CL was against an IJN CA and in each battle the IJN CA was sunk while the USN CL was only lightly damaged.

[grraven2004]

I actually like the Cleveland and the Brooklyn class CL's over just about all the allied CA's except the Wichita class. They are just as good a AA platform as the CA's and they seem tougher than the CA's in surface combat IMO.

[spence]

I think I remember some Jane's Fighting Ships statistics that basically show that the Brooklyns and Clevelands displace more and have heavier armor than any of the pre-war "Treaty Cruisers" (US CAs built before 1941). They were only "light" cruisers because they had 6" guns.

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: spence

I think I remember some Jane's Fighting Ships statistics that basically show that the Brooklyns and Clevelands displace more and have heavier armor than any of the pre-war "Treaty Cruisers" (US CAs built before 1941). They were only "light" cruisers because they had 6" guns.

Totally true. The problem for IJN is that 6in shells penetrate the IJN CA as easily as 8in shells and may fire faster and so hit more...

[neuromancer]

Just as a comment, by 1943 the USN surface forces should be fairly experienced, and thus able to use their radar to great advantage.

Historically, when Washington and one of the Dakotas (plus some DDs) engaged an IJN battle group in The Slot, the radar was a huge advantage. The IJN CAs and BBs were basically either firing blind, or they had to light up their targets with spotlights, which made it somewhat the night equivilant of a giant bullseye.

The most telling case of this was when the IJN BBs and CAs had so hammered the Dakota that she lost her radar (I beleive it was a loss of electricals), which put Washington in a tough spot. It picked up two big returns, but wasn't sure which one was the IJN BB, and which was the USN BB. So they watched both ships until one turned on spotlights on her gun turrets to aim their guns. Washington immediately lay the 16" on that, and let her have it. It was the IJN battleship Kirishima, making it the only BB sank by a US BB.

The USS Washington website has a transcript of the actual AAR of the engagement.

[AmiralLaurent]

ORIGINAL: neuromancer

It was the IJN battleship Kirishima, making it the only BB sank by a US BB.

Well, two IJN BB were sunk during the Battle of Leyte Gulf during a night surface battle and at least one was hit by the USN BB line. They were Fuso and Yamashiro.

As for the USN being better in 1943 in surface battle, I know it and this is the main reason why I attack with such overwhelwming superiority. My BB were hit several times each by Allied CA without any real damage. My problem is that they didn't hit anything.

As for experience, this battle was probably the first surface battle of thi s game in wich a majority of the involved USN ships survive. I waited a long time before striking. But they should have won a lot of experience just cruising.

[Radzy]

Hi,

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

But that was more or less excepted.
What was not excepted is that the IJN lost the naval surface battle....

Well the Japanese loss in such engagement is not so unique. Primo, it happened historically, not only in Surigao strait but also near Savo. In the narrow waters conditions, like in the places mentioned above, the big ships haven't to many room for manouvers. Also spotting ability was reduced by surrounding islands. And of course in the night all cats are black, so it was hard to determine what you were dealing with. During the Solomos Campaign most engagements took place on small distances on which the heavy shells from BBs were just passing through less armored vessels without exploding, while the 8" (or even modern 6") shells from CAs could easily damage the crucial systems of the opponent. Secundo I add, that Japanese were very stubborn and subordinate to any order given - vide fe. Battle of Cape Esperance (11th Oct 1942), where all ships except one followed the leader and almost all got creamed by Scott. Tertio, the large task forces are quite hard to manage in any condition and Japanese commanders don't have high leadership values. High fatigure and low morale also impacts the performance. That really can reduce the caliber advantage...

And this was one of engagements which happened to me:

Kondo went down The Slot in desperate need of bombarding Henderson Field which was causing troubles in supplying the remaining Japanese forces on Guadalcanal. He got surprised on 4 kilo yards by my task force led by Normie Scott (he was eager to kick some Japanese asses after loosing 1CA and 2CLs few days earlier...). He crossed the T, got Japs with their pants down and here's result:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Lunga at 38,40

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 29, on fire, heavy damage
CA Atago, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Maya, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA Myoko, Shell hits 5, on fire
CA Kinugasa, Shell hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
CL Sendai, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Oyashio, Shell hits 1
DD Hayashio, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Amatsukaze, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Hagikaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Tanikaze, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Asashio, Shell hits 1
DD Suzukaze, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Inazuma, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Harukaze, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CA Indianapolis
CA Louisville
CA Canberra, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Hobart, Shell hits 3
CL Phoenix
CL Honolulu
DD Swanson
DD Wilkes, Shell hits 1
DD Gwin, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Stockton
DD Sims, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD O'Brien, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Helm
DD Mugford
DD Patterson
DD Conyngham

Effect: 3CAs, CL sunk. BB and 3DDs finished next day by planes. No loses on US side (Sims drifted to Tulagi[:D]). It is of course lucky, full suprise engagement, but I've got few more in which heavier equipped enemy forces had bad luck. Few times my TF was creamed by the enemy light forces also.