Farewell to the great one

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:59 pm

I'll not comment on the man's polices and the pros and cons thereof.....thats a discussion for a political board.

I'll just say this instead. I'm 'one of those' [;)] who grew up during Reagan's terms of office. I remember the depression and pessimism that prevailed during President Carter's administration, particularily during the Iran hostage crisis. It seemed at the time
that our military couldn't even tie it's own shoelaces much less protect our nations against what appeared to be a giant sized nemisis. (Keep in mind, this was the impression of a kid just entering his early teens)

Reagan turned all that around. He made me feel safe again. He gave me hope that hey, maybe we can survive in the age of the big bad Bear, and stepping out of the etherial mode......he spent the dollars needed to get our military back on it's collective feet. I remember doing a HS term paper on the re-activation of the Iowa class battleships and the pros and cons therein. Maybe all the military spending wasn't the best policy in regards to our economy....but given the times, i think it was necessary.

Thats why, for all his faults....and no president, including Roosevelt wasn't without em.....i'll always revere Reagan. We needed him during a dark time in the our collective conciousness.

Mike Scholl · Post by **Mike Scholl** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:32 pm

ORIGINAL: madmickey
Reagan was the greatest President of the last century by a wide margin his actions won the cold wars and turned around the US economy. I am a Canadian and The US per capita income (which was similar in 1980) has outperformed the Canadian per capita income since Reagan came to power. Our debt and deficit per capita were a lot worse than the American in the 1980 despite the facts Canadians had no tax cut and spend very little for defense (we depends on the Americans).

Here I would dissagree. Reagan made Americans "feel good" about being Americans
again..., but so did Teddy Roosevelt at the other end of the Century, and John Kennedy
He presided over the end of the "Cold War" just as Truman and Eisenhower presided
over it's beginning and "set the course". He was a marvelous communicator in the media
of his age, but so were TR, FDR, and Kennedy.

Virtually all of his achievements were matched by others in the course of 100 years. But
for the "greatest", one must have the "greatest challanges" to be met. And in that re-
spect, FDR comes out ahead presiding over the "Great Depression" and WW II. And he
kept Americans believing in themselves and their institutions throughout a period that
could easily led down the path towards fascism or communism or some other "ism" as
a "quick fix" to their problems. Was he perfect..., No. None of them were. But we were
lucky to have him during those times of maximum stress.

Now I was born with Truman, and grew up with Eisenhower, so I've seen at least half of
them. History is my first and lasting love, so I'm reasonably familiar with the times and
events that the rest had to deal with. Some get better marks with perspective, while
others lose their shine with mature reflection. Reagan isn't quite far enough back to be
sure how this process will judge him, though it looks like his marks will improve. But to
call him the "greatest President of the Twentieth Century" is overstating the case. He was
a good and decent human being, but that's no guarantee. Jimmy Carter may possibly
be the "very best ex-President" in our History..., but in office he floundered.

The best that you can say about RR is that he was a President who met the needs of his
era. Which, when you think of it, isn't a bad legacy at all.

Blackhorse · Post by **Blackhorse** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 6:14 pm

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
Virtually all of his achievements were matched by others in the course of 100 years. But
for the "greatest", one must have the "greatest challanges" to be met. And in that re-
spect, FDR comes out ahead presiding over the "Great Depression" and WW II. And he
kept Americans believing in themselves and their institutions throughout a period that
could easily led down the path towards fascism or communism or some other "ism" as
a "quick fix" to their problems. Was he perfect..., No. None of them were. But we were
lucky to have him during those times of maximum stress.

I'd agree that FDR wins top billing as Greatest President of the 20th Century (and I'm a life-long Republican!) More importantly, I think Ronald Reagan would agree as well -- FDR was RRs favorite President, and he certainly mirrored Roosevelt's sunny optimism, faith in America, and 'can do' spirit.

The best that you can say about RR is that he was a President who met the needs of his era. Which, when you think of it, isn't a bad legacy at all.

It's not a bad legacy, but there's more to it than that. RR was one of the three most effective Presidents in the 20th Century - along with the two Roosevelts - in changing the country, and achieving what he wanted done. History will eventually judge how beneficial those changes were; IMHO, history will judge him well, but time will tell.

Damien Thorn · Post by **Damien Thorn** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 7:29 pm

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse
RR was one of the three most effective Presidents in the 20th Century - along with the two Roosevelts - in changing the country, and achieving what he wanted done.

It is even more impressive when you realize that he did it with the opposition party controlling congress. Several times he had to go directly to the American people and ask them to call and write to their representative and tell them to support Reagan's policies.

FDR did a lot of good but he also implemented a lot of Socialistic policies. Maybe they were necesary during the depression but, like all "entitlements" they sure are hard to get rid of afterward.

dwesolick · Post by **dwesolick** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:36 pm

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl
I think Ronald Reagan would agree as well -- FDR was RRs favorite President,

Heh, actually, Calvin Coolidge was Reagan's favorite prez. He put "Silent Cal's" portrait in the place of honor in the White House. He admired Coolidge's belief in small government and pro-business stance. Coolidge also broke the 1919 (I think) police strike in Boston (while governor of Mass), similiar to Reagan's breaking of the air traffic controller's strike in 81. There is no right to strike against the public safety by anyone, anytime---Coolidge (think I got the quote right).

dwesolick · Post by **dwesolick** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 11:38 pm

Geez. I just realized that I submitted a post on CALVIN COOLIDGE[X(].....we REALLY need WitP to be released SOON![:D]

Slick91 · Post by **Slick91** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:41 pm

Reagan IS one of my two heroes in life, but in the world of politics there is always disagreement.

The big difference between Reagan and current day politicians is there was no hatred of him from his opponents even during the most heated debates. You can tell allot about his presidency from the outpouring of emotion and respect that he has received from his former opposition. That's the difference between a good leader and a great leader is what the legacy leaves behind.

The fact that moderate democrats (to be known as Reagan Democrats) overwhelmingly voted for him in the 1984 election speaks volumes of what he did for this country. You can’t say that about Ford, Carter, Bush-41, Clinton, or Bush-43. I personally doubt that we will see this level of sorrow or high praise at the loss of any of the current living presidents.

Mike Scholl · Post by **Mike Scholl** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 2:54 pm

ORIGINAL: Damien
FDR did a lot of good but he also implemented a lot of Socialistic policies. Maybe they were necesary during the depression but, like all "entitlements" they sure are hard to get rid of afterward.

You missed by thirty years, Damien. The "entitlements" that hamstring our national budget are a relic of the Kennedy/Johnson sixties and the "Great Society"---not of the
Roosevelt thirties and the "New Deal" About all you can hang on FDR was Social Security,
which was actually a self-supporting entity as it was created. Wasn't until a much later
Democratic Congress decided to lump it in with the general revenues (so they could
blow it buying votes) that it went under.

Slick91 · Post by **Slick91** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:16 pm

Enough said.

Jonny_B · Post by **Jonny_B** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:41 pm

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Yes I remember President Reagan:

Iran Contra lies, trading weapons and money to Iran for hostages, the beginning of what we call terrorism presently.
Sending three hundred marines to Beirut, having ordered them personal not to have loaded weapons, they all died under fire.
Reagan Economics basic principle: the rich got richer and the hell with the middle and poor classes.

I will always respect President Regan as my former president.

I will also pray for him, however I do not personal consider him the best president in the last 25 years, that goes directly to President Clinton, who did help and really care about the poor and middle classes.

Jon A Baskin

Mike Scholl · Post by **Mike Scholl** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:45 pm

ORIGINAL: Jonny_B

I will also pray for him, however I do not personal consider him the best president in the last 25 years, that goes directly to President Clinton, who did help and really care about the poor and middle classes.

But that's because he was sleeping with half of them....

Jonny_B · Post by **Jonny_B** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:50 pm

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Mr. Mike Scholl:

I rather have a president that lies about sex, than a president that lies about the reasons for going to war!!!!

mark24 · Post by **mark24** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 pm

I rather have a president that lies about sex, than a president that lies about the reasons for going to war!!!!

Would it be too much to ask to ask one that just doesn't lie at all?

Mark

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:29 pm

you wont find one.

Reiryc · Post by **Reiryc** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:51 pm

ORIGINAL: Jonny_B

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Mr. Mike Scholl:

I rather have a president that lies about sex, than a president that lies about the reasons for going to war!!!!

Problem is, we've only had a president who lies about sex with interns....

BTW, what is the definition of is these days? [8|]

Reiryc · Post by **Reiryc** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 6:53 pm

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

My father was a Professor of English in California at Fresno State and was very anti-Reagan.

Imagine that. One might almost think there's a liberal bias at America's universities.[8|]

[&o]

Reiryc · Post by **Reiryc** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:08 pm

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

ORIGINAL: Damien
FDR did a lot of good but he also implemented a lot of Socialistic policies. Maybe they were necesary during the depression but, like all "entitlements" they sure are hard to get rid of afterward.

You missed by thirty years, Damien. The "entitlements" that hamstring our national budget are a relic of the Kennedy/Johnson sixties and the "Great Society"---not of the
Roosevelt thirties and the "New Deal" About all you can hang on FDR was Social Security,
which was actually a self-supporting entity as it was created. Wasn't until a much later
Democratic Congress decided to lump it in with the general revenues (so they could
blow it buying votes) that it went under.

He should never have done social security in the first place. Yet he gave us many socilaistic programs, agricultural adjustment act, civilian works administration, ccc, wpa and on and on....

FDR was primarily responsible for changing the government towards its current socialistic system. When his 'deal' programs kept getting declared unconstitutional by the supreme court, he tried to stack the supreme court by increasing the number of justices to 15. Sadly, he politicized the supreme court due to his own personal anger at his 'deal' programs being declared unconstitutional.

denisonh · Post by **denisonh** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:13 pm

This thread should probably migrate over to the Art of Wargaming, based on the direction this one is going.

jnier · Post by **jnier** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 7:53 pm

ORIGINAL: madmickey
I am a Professional Engineer with an MBA my impression of University Professor are 90% do not have the common sense of a doughnut. They work a heavily subsidized industry where people praise its value as a motherhood issue. My greatest hope is that sometime in the future Professors will be paid on what students will pay for their value. If this happened a lot a liberal arts university will have to apply for job at 7-11.

After reading that post, it sounds like someone should have taken more left-wing liberal English classes. [;)]

Damien Thorn · Post by **Damien Thorn** » Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:21 pm

Today around noon I was home for lunch. I watched live as they took the casket to the air base and loaded it on Air Force One ( yes, I know it is only called "Air Force One" when the president is on board but it is still the same plane).
It was a very moving scene. The military honor guard moved the casket while the band played "Hail to the Chief" and later "Amazing Grace". Some artillery piece nearby fired off a 21 gun salute. When Nancy Reagan got to the top of the stairs and was about to board the plane she turned and waved to thank the crowd who had gathered there. Then the cameras followed the plane until it was out of sight.

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