An idea....a new look for SPWaW

Wulfe190 · Post by **Wulfe190** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 1:06 pm

Has the SPWaW development team given thought to the possibility of making a 3D version of SPWaW? Something like one see's in the TalonSoft Campaign series of games (West Front, East Front II, Rising Sun). It would require quite a bit of work but WHEW, what it would do for this game. How about a 3rd person ground view of the units....this would be even harder but that would make this already great game simply magnificant. Give it some thought....it would be hard but it could be done.

Wulfe190

Ross Moorhouse · Post by **Ross Moorhouse** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 2:31 pm

Well we are working on something that you might like. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> http://www.matrixgames.com/Games/CombatLeader-EastFront/index.asp

Truckeye · Post by **Truckeye** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 5:58 pm

. The game portrays the battlefield in a top-down 2D mode using finely detailed, artistically rendered, hex maps with dimensions up to 800 x 800 battle maps at 25 yards per hex.

that is a quote from CL screen. not sure how that answers the 3D question. i looked at the screen shots to verify and they are top-down 2D. im not complaining, i like the 2D look myself. i would like to add that the vehicles you have look great! any chance of some camo shots?? thanks

Ross Moorhouse · Post by **Ross Moorhouse** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 6:54 pm

Originally posted by Truckeye:
. The game portrays the battlefield in a top-down 2D mode using finely detailed, artistically rendered, hex maps with dimensions up to 800 x 800 battle maps at 25 yards per hex.

that is a quote from CL screen. not sure how that answers the 3D question. i looked at the screen shots to verify and they are top-down 2D. im not complaining, i like the 2D look myself. i would like to add that the vehicles you have look great! any chance of some camo shots?? thanks

You would have to ask Him Big Chief david for those. If you have a look at the CA screenshots you will see some camo tanks there. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

m200 · Post by **m200** » Tue Oct 02, 2001 11:27 pm

Originally posted by Wulfe190:
Has the SPWaW development team given thought to the possibility of making a 3D version of SPWaW? Something like one see's in the TalonSoft Campaign series of games (West Front, East Front II, Rising Sun). It would require quite a bit of work but WHEW, what it would do for this game. Wulfe190

3D graphics in a good, serious wargame... Yuck! I can't believe it!!! What is this world coming to?! I hope it will never happen.
Serious wargaming and 3D graphics don't go well with each other...

m200

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 12:15 am

That's an old question and a long thread here some time ago..
I remember there is a strong opposition here for a 3D version of SPWAW..and let me say I can understand these opinions..since SPWAW is not QUAKE..it shares absolutely any mentality with QUAKE I can understand the fact that we do not trust about a 3D view..
If you look around the 3D usually means in a great variety of ways the concept "go...look around and fire to them before they kill you"...can you see thousands of maniacal teen agers playing QUAKE untill complete doom of brain ?
NOw maybe Combat Mission is something different..I couldn't actually try it ..and Hidden and Dangerous chooses a sort of intelligent game style..but only looking at Sudden Strike I feared something else could compete with SPWAW..fortunately for us they made more a Quake game dressed by WWII than a SPWAW
concept and deepnes of playing .so actually SPWAW RULES !
but my secret dream is one day Combat Leader -turn based extending SPWAW with the sudden strike 3d approach...
when the deepest SPWAW's playbility will finally meet a 3D isometric view I think we will assist the same revolution that Civilization brought to the gestional games and Starcraft to the real-time...
Try to think about it !
DOLLARS..obviously we have not forget how much this approach will cost to the programmers..such a games require maybe one year to be realized
Anyway this is not an easy subject !

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 12:42 am

I vote for keeping the top down 2D approach ..call me old fashioned

Wulfe190 · Post by **Wulfe190** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 6:03 am

Ahhhhhhhh......sorry bout opening up a can of worms.....just remembering my days of miniature gaming.....won't mention it again.

Wulfe190

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:15 pm

To Ammosgt..wasn't it Eastern front where you can press a button and switch from a 3D to a 2d view and viceversa ?
Someone helping me to remember...that way you
can beat you gain both the REVOLUTION and the ANCIENT...linked togheter...
I do not believe we have to enclose ourself into static vision of things..today we would have still SP1 if noone never dared to go forward..at the same time I join your vote for keeping SPWAW (but it's clear I am referring to Combat LEader) at the closest way held to the tradition..
Matrix wonderfully succeded in giving SP1 a new future in full respect of tradition..
why stop it now ?
Simply trust in them !
They prooved to be respectfull innovators !
bye

Paul Vebber · Post by **Paul Vebber** » Wed Oct 03, 2001 11:36 pm

Never say never to anything around here, but at least a VERY long time (several years)...

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 2:38 am

No hurry when Rome created an EMPIRE , Paul !
And now we can think at Carthago !
Your words keep alive a tiny hope...but we have too much to enjoy in the meanwhile !!!
Your progress is full of wisdom and patience !Good job !

Nikademus · Post by **Nikademus** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 2:48 am

3D is good for when you are running around with a loaded Rocket launcher, wishing to see up close and personal what happens when a SHAPED warhead impacts with an Alien goon's head.

But not in a tactical wargame.

sebagonzalez · Post by **sebagonzalez** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 2:52 pm

Seems there is some people here that thinks that..the most raugh the graphics of a Strategic wargame are, the better they r....maybe some here think that 2D graphics make them be real commanders, or above the intelectual level of most or something, just nuts and no sense at all. An already excellent game with excelent dinamics, combined with awsome 3D graphics, u just cant ask for more. Anyway, if u dont like 3D graphics, then keep playing your "Intelectualy superior" 2D one (if helps to your self steem).......(and also, we r just especulating about a 3D SPWAW).

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 4:49 pm

Yes..some people seems to fear 3D as a whole...but they can be understood..too many 3D games around the subject have betrayed any expectation !
So thinking at the deepness and playbility of SPWAW corrupted by a 3D commercial purpose may obviously raise roumors here and it's really something dangerous..BUT ...but we have Matrix here!!.. they did a large amount of enhancements to SPWAW...and no one of these had never brought shame to the old concept of SP1..who is speaking is just an old SP1 best lover

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 7:46 pm

I understand the opinion to avoid the Quake-like 3D graphics and how they do not fit into a battalion level game BUT what about the terrain? I would like to see 3D terrain. With the current 2D terrain its not obvious where the LOSs are until you move and right click. Then you see a dark hex that is a depression. I'd like to see better shading of the terrain to show this, not to mention slopes, etc. IMHO terrain is the second greatest factor in tactics, after the units involved. Better visual representation of the terrain would be more realistic and not introduce Quake-likeisms.

Mark Ezra · Post by **Mark Ezra** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 8:49 pm

3D not for "serious" Wargames??? Try Combat Mission. 3D and played by most serious wargamers. So why do I play SPWAW? more units, country's, years, buildings, landscape, ect, ect. 3D just take a great deal of juice to render so until PC's get REALLLlllY big , full scale wargames like SPWAW will stay at 2D. One final point: IMHO (only) Talonsoft is not true 3D because youn cannot change the angle of view.

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Fri Oct 05, 2001 9:30 pm

Originally posted by Mark Ezra:
3D not for "serious" Wargames??? Try Combat Mission. ....

I don't think is an issue of serious or not as much as an issue of scale. At a low scale (individual or team) its more personal so first person/3D visuals are appropriate. At higher levels where the units are more aggregated an overview/ less personal/ less 3D view is more appropriate (Panzer General, etc. not withstanding).

Mark Ezra · Post by **Mark Ezra** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:04 am

I don't want to sing the praises of Combat Mission on our forum. Suffice to say that CM plays sqds up to Battalion strength...But when you play at that size you best have a PC and video card that can handle it. IF SPWAW could be played with 3D I expect the only people who would object would be those with older PC's. Fact is there would be very few of us able to play SPWAW with it's huge scope and depth in 3D. CM has walked a fine line to bring true wargaming in 3D. SPWAW and Combat Leader are taking the 2D environment to it's most detailed and accurate levels. I'll stay with this process until technology catches up to our imaginations.

ruxius · Post by **ruxius** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:54 am

Originally posted by Larry Holt:

I understand the opinion to avoid the Quake-like 3D graphics and how they do not fit into a battalion level game BUT what about the terrain? I would like to see 3D terrain. With the current 2D terrain its not obvious where the LOSs are until you move and right click. Then you see a dark hex that is a depression. I'd like to see better shading of the terrain to show this, not to mention slopes, etc .

TOTALLY AGREE ! That's the point ! The old SP1 had a larger zoom of camera..and this seemed to show better the terrain and tanks within terrain..more than a merely eye's pleasure (which is always a good issue ): terrain could be better
understood..

Also consider that I am talking about the 3D you can see in Sudden Strike..I don't know how it is called..isometric 3D ? that way SPWAW will definitively become a game for the masses..
today only the purest FINE wargamers are able to appreciate a 2D game...but you see ..always new people is coming here and we make them playing a top-down view..can you imagine a 3D view which let you taste and love the 3D shapes of a tiger and a T-34 ? I think some players here will become maniacs..
But hear what Paul said..maybe one day we will assist to this revolutionary event...
oh that day !!
One more step to PAradise for MAtrix !

AmmoSgt · Post by **AmmoSgt** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 4:27 am

CL is going to have Alien Goons???? What kinda Armor on their heads are we talking about ??? I bet it's gonna mean we are going to need M36A7's with the new pluse cannons ... and those will be over 255 points or else everything will have to be made cheaper in the OOB's ... I sure hope they don't take out the Yugoslavian OOB for the Alien Goons ...
ruxius I think Westfront or eastfront ( i can't remember which i wasted money on ) had something like that..I only played it twice ... and I bet that SP(series)/WAW gets played more times per purchase than any other game ..thats why it has lasted .. thats why the work has gone into it ..thats why folks care