Quick update on development progress.

[Mr.Frag]

Will this game be available at GoGamer.com? I hate to pay full price ($50) for a game that doesn't come with anything but a CD.

No

[dwesolick]

ORIGINAL: ioticus

I hate to pay full price ($50) for a game that doesn't come with anything but a CD.

[8|]This probably isn't the game for you. By the way, it's $70 for digital download...more if you want the CD.

[ioticus]

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

[8|]This probably isn't the game for you. By the way, it's $70 for digital download...more if you want the CD.

Well I've been a wargamer for over 20 years (both board and computer) so I think the game is right up my alley. I think $70 for a game download is highway robbery. Not that I can't afford it, but I don't like being price gouged. I think they'll lose a lot of sales at that price.

[freeboy]

I am worried about posts like this .. has a market sample been done. I would hate to see thousands of sales be missed due to a misjudjed price point. I believe it is worth what the market will bear.[:D] so maybe its real value is 199.99.. but if matrix loses 50. % of the sales over 10.00. say 59.99 vs 69.99 that would be a pity. I am posting this not to lobby matrix to change there price, only to weigh the cost of the higher cost while going dd.

[Becket]

ORIGINAL: ioticus

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

[8|]This probably isn't the game for you. By the way, it's $70 for digital download...more if you want the CD.

Well I've been a wargamer for over 20 years (both board and computer) so I think the game is right up my alley. I think $70 for a game download is highway robbery. Not that I can't afford it, but I don't like being price gouged. I think they'll lose a lot of sales at that price.

I suspect the price has been pegged based on a reasonable return on investment for a small dev team that turns out one game every two years or so, and does not expect to sell millions of copies. Sort of like the board wargaming business, where $70 is probably the average price.

[Mr.Frag]

Whaaa! 70 dollars! Whaaa! [8|]

There are times like this when you really just want to stick an extra zero in the price to separate the men from the boys.

[denisonh]

Of course, WitP is not a game for the masses, and will never see the volume sales of some other "popular" products.

Many of us have been following the development for YEARS, and are ready for the game to be released. The price is small for the VALUE. (Ask the forum if they could have it now for $80 or mid July for $50, my guess there would be a lot of sales at $80[:D])

If one would price the game to make a PROFIT, I can imagine it would have to be higher, as it is my assertion there is more money to be made by charging more than less. The population buying this product are going to buy it for the most part whether it be $50, $60, $70 or $80. The number of additional purchases would not be siginicant for $50 vs $70 IMHO.

[Mr.Frag]

If one would price the game to make a PROFIT, I can imagine it would have to be higher, as it is my assertion there is more money to be made by charging more than less.

I doubt they could charge enough to make a profit. Buy a couple each, it's the only chance they will even break even. [;)]

[freeboy]

Hey Frag,
Whhaaaa right back atcha [:-]
Not really my point... does anyone do anything like sell or market or is this the forum of the undead, I mean Technically able ? If I sell witp for 10.00 and sell 2000000 copies the total would be 200,000,000. in gross sales. No box no manual little overhead.. exceipt for the servers for all those dds. OK 5000 at 70 is what.. ok 350,000. At some point raising prices hurts a company when costs of selling more do not rise , an example of where this does not work is in publishing where a major mag under judged its sales, committed to filling the orders at a loss and was unable to make up in advertizing the loses, they needed to renegotiate the ad contracts as they had way undersold .. and the profit was to be from the ad dollars. So where were we.. ok.. price point... not a mass market game.. a game by gg? really now ??I think thousands of copies could be sold but not at 99.99. On the other hand Frag will pay any price.. or will he be rewarded for his faithful service with a free copy?[:D]

[Becket]

ORIGINAL: freeboy
If I sell witp for 10.00 and sell 2000000 copies the total would be 200,000,000. in gross sales.

You also would be eclipsing the sales of mass market titles like Warcraft, the Sims, etc. Do you really think that's a reasonable example? You set up a horrible straw man with your numbers, which have no basis in reality. After all, your "5000 at 70" example sets forth that slightly less than one-half of the number of forum members will buy the game. If the best selling Matrix game only has the same number of purchasers as Matrix has forum members, then 5000 sales would be a success, no?

One would think that Matrix/2by3 used Uncommon Valor as a yardstick for the number of likely customers.

Without data, all you guys are doing are complaining about a high price. If you feel you are being gouged, then vote with your wallet. If you feel the price is reasonable for the product (I do...board wargames of comparable scale cost more!), then buy.

[Nikademus]

I'll never understand how anyone can complain about $70. I paid $80 for War in Russia (that is, the 8-bit version for the Atari) in the mid 80's

[Mr.Frag]

On the other hand Frag will pay any price.. or will he be rewarded for his faithful service with a free copy?

I joined the beta program to cure some of those *I hate UV* bugs that always cost me CV's coupled with some bugs with fast transports that drove both Leo & I nuts.

The reality is that 80% of the folks in this forum will buy WitP, 20% probably will not and wait until a pirate copy surfaces. Matrix may sell another couple of thousand copies outside the forum, but thats about it.

The average sales for wargames is generally less then 10,000 copies. This being in the super grog catagory will probably halve that number.

At $70 x 5,000 we have $350,000. 4-5 people working for 2 years = 35,000 to 43,750 a year.

I don't know about you, but thats not exactly in the high catagory. Thats just paying the guys to do the work. Show me where the profit comes from?

As far as me getting a free copy, not going to happen, i'll be buying a couple copies to keep these guys in business.

[Nikademus]

I believe Matrix has stated that they dont expect to make a profit.....but there's always hope.

Its a very specialized market and not overly large.

[freeboy]

maybe we should start a fund.. save the baby programers

[ioticus]

I'll pay almost any price for a good wargame. If the reviews are good from people I trust and there are few bugs, I'll gladly lay down my $70. But the quality has to be there. Most importantly (for me) the AI has to be good.

[Admiral DadMan]

ORIGINAL: freeboy
If I sell witp for 10.00 and sell 2000000 copies the total would be 200,000,000. in gross sales.

Hey, come be my banker!

[ZOOMIE1980]

ORIGINAL: Becket

ORIGINAL: freeboy
If I sell witp for 10.00 and sell 2000000 copies the total would be 200,000,000. in gross sales.

You also would be eclipsing the sales of mass market titles like Warcraft, the Sims, etc. Do you really think that's a reasonable example? You set up a horrible straw man with your numbers, which have no basis in reality. After all, your "5000 at 70" example sets forth that slightly less than one-half of the number of forum members will buy the game. If the best selling Matrix game only has the same number of purchasers as Matrix has forum members, then 5000 sales would be a success, no?

One would think that Matrix/2by3 used Uncommon Valor as a yardstick for the number of likely customers.

Without data, all you guys are doing are complaining about a high price. If you feel you are being gouged, then vote with your wallet. If you feel the price is reasonable for the product (I do...board wargames of comparable scale cost more!), then buy.

What are the units sold to date for UV? I'm sure that is the basis for the pricing of this one. This is the single most important and difficult issue on the business side of commercial "off-the-shelf" software, gaming or otherwise. At what exact pricing point do you maximize your profit potential? No one really knows; they just try and get reasonably close. And bigger firms spend millions trying find just where that price point should be.

Those who claim that $70 is robbery are probably basing that on prices for much more mainstream titles that sell in the 100,000+ unit range. Those who claim they'd be willing to spen $100+ are equally absurd, letting their fanaticism cloud their reasoning. I'd live without it at that price, no matter how "good" it was. But $70, seems, to me, to "feel" about right for this. And as stated is the going rate for a similar type board game.

[Nikademus]

"robbery" is what the buffoons who stole the source code for Half Life 2 did [:-]

[AmiralLaurent]

I will buy whatever the price is. I've spend hundred and hundred hours playing UV, that is easily ten times more any game I never played before.. so basically I can pay up to ten times the normal price for a mainsytream game. But I will be happy to pay 70 dollars to Matrix, except that with digital loading only (that means no box to be bought in a French shop, as I did for UV) that will be an international buying for me and my French bank will charge me abusebily (as always) for it...

[freeboy]

Admiral DadMan ,
That was a test.. you win the prize [:D]
I am not worried about paying the price at 70.00 and I do remember those costly games in the 80's that with inflation would probably be even higher than 69.99. I am concerned that a game only available for dd,thus no shelf space could seem overpriced to any newbie.. but I do not personnaly find the price too high, just thinking about those future games.. each happy customer today buys your product tomorrow.. I would by any gg game, wouldn't you? Is this a super grog game.. probably..
Another point is that there is vertually 0 cost post production / number of sold copies.. just a thought.. Zommiethinks 70.00 is a good pp(price point) I think 50 or 60 is better in these regards, but please do not missinterpret my motives thinking I want these folk not to make money as The very oposite is true...[&o][&o][&o]