Concerned about global warming?

[Warrior2]

Excellent information here: http://www.oism.org/pproject/s33p36.htm

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Now that's a lot of data to sift through, but I am sure the OOB crowd is up to it

I must say though.

Mother nature has done the Ice Age thing several times in the past, and to assume it will never ever again happen is perhaps incredible stupidity hehe.

Measuring trends based on humanity's recorded history over the last 2000 years is of course stuck with the problem that a lot of the records past 100 years ago, start to get stuck in the fact that accurate record keeping was never what I would call thrilling.

Remember, we didn't call it the dark ages because we didn't have electricity.

All I can say, is I have read enough about planetology as a complete picture, and read enough about the potential of our global conditions coming to haunt us. After having seen the film of recent, and having read the book it was based off of.

I am basically comfortable knowing if I am right or if I am wrong, it is likely nothing will be done by anyone else to alter anything.

Being Canadian, a renewed Ice Age basically would likely start off with my country being completely and utterly wiped out. Along with most of the northern hemisphere, in a poetic form of justice wiping out the industrialised nations for the most part.

I have told people there is no "survival plan" for meeting the scenario of that film head on. You survive it by not starting the ball rolling basically. And as we speak the ball is rolling.

It will likely get hotter before it suddenly gets worse though. I expect to witness massive crop failures in my life time. Can't raise the heat forever eh.

[Charles2222]

No.

[Wild Bill]

If this is the case, not a whole lot we can do about it, I guess. If I were a young man beginning all over again, I seriously question the idea of having children to face what might be fifty years from now...Enough food to eat, water to drink, air to breathe?

Will everyone because of rampant lawlessness, be force to live "Dodge City" style, with a weapon on the hip?

A police officer (Lt. in Homicide) friend of my recently stated, "Every one should have a weapon of some sort in the home. We just can't protect folks today as they should be protected. Most of the time you will be on your own!"

On my own.... interesting thought. It does make one look beyond himself, and beyond all human protection or provision to find the answer.

WB

[Wild Bill]

By the way, Warrior and Les and others. I still get a sort of thrill when I see the MC-SE baner still waving. It was a year ago that we began that magnificent project. It was a great experience for me.

WB

[John Galt]

The children you might have may be the ones to solve difficult problems of the future. And I don't believe "global warming" will have anything to do with those problems. I do believe global warming is a "global scam" to tap into the financial resources of the USA. The world's leftists like nothing better than spreading the misery around. [:)]
Concerned about global warming? Hell no!

[Smeghead]

I am concerned, but am not going to let it impact my SPWAW gaming.
[:'(]

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Last I checked, I wasn't part of the US government, I don't have any connection to the oil industry, I don't really like Greenpeace really, I am not selling anything, and generally speaking will not gain one iota convincing you about anything to do with Global Warming.

Beyond getting you to stop being a sucker for any of those groups that generally DOESN'T want you to believe in Global Warming.

Do the research, the research that counts. Examine the mechanism that triggered all the other Ice Ages. They did happen remember. The last Ice Age isn't some cock and bull story thought up to annoy the US and their obsession with jobs at all costs.

This planet is currently in a cooling period as it is known to any well educated planetary scientist. Our planets natural state (if 3/4 of 4.5 billions years can be called the norm) is actually a good deal hotter than it is right now.
Ice Ages are actually not the norm, but then again, we have had more than a few in what mother nature calls "the recent past". The recent past to this planet is NOT 1000 years or 1 million years either.

So for those silly enough to just follow the notion "its all just crap" let me just say this now, "I told you so".

[wodin]

Here is a SHOCKING FACT!

The extinction rate at present is faster than that which finished off the Dinosaurs.

The Ice age happens when the earths axis tilts slightley which happens I think every 50,000 to a 100,000 years (Cant remembe rwhich but its one of those dates).

Yes it will happen also as the ice melts at present it could cool down the oceans thus affecting the gulf stream then its by by UK.

To be honest with you all our species as a whole needs to be cut down and by either our own doing or by nature it will happen. As individuals we can be a super species as a collective we arent at all nice in any way.

BIRD FLU is the most dangerous threat to mankind at present. Onc ethis flu becomes air borne (which will happen and is predicited shortly) the the flu epedemic of WW1 and after will be nothing in comparision. This flu strain is far more aggresive and dangerous when caught than the flu of then.

Nature will find away of putting us in our place one day, and the planet as a whole will be the better for it.

[Commander Klank]

[8|]

Here is another SHOCKING FACT!

We'll all be dead before any of this happens. So will you great, great, great, great, grand childern...

[wodin]

AS far as the bird flu goes dont be so sure. Flu strains mutate constantly ad it is regarded as one of the biggest threats by the world health organisation.

Global warming is infact already happneing and it only takes a 3 to 5 degrre change to totatly altar our enviroment. In Britian over the past five years if not more a subtle chamge in the weather has already started to appear.

Roll your eyes if you want but I suggest you do some research first.

The funny thing is though. Im not at all bothered by it. Im not an alarmist as I dont feel alarmed we need a good clear out and it will happen. Im sure it will not in my lifetime either.

The USA pulling out of the treaty is appaling and to be honest an utter disgrace. Though it was obvious a man of oil wasnt going to go along with it.

[Kokoda]

I tried to ignore this, but I couldn't.

I understand that this is preaching to the converted, but if you are interested in the reliability of the information you should see...

http://www.prwatch.org/improp/oism.html

There are claims of a vast support from scientists...

"Headed by Arthur Robinson, an eccentric scientist who has a long history of controversial entanglements with figures on the fringe of accepted research, OISM describes itself as "a small research institute" that studies "biochemistry, diagnostic medicine, nutrition, preventive medicine and the molecular biology of aging."

"In reality, neither Robinson's paper nor OISM's petition drive had anything to do with the National Academy of Sciences, which first heard about the petition when its members began calling to ask if the NAS had taken a stand against the Kyoto treaty. Robinson was not even a climate scientist. He was a biochemist with no published research in the field of climatology, and his paper had never been subjected to peer review by anyone with training in the field. In fact, the paper had never been accepted for publication anywhere, let alone in the NAS Proceedings. It was self-published by Robinson, who did the typesetting himself on his own computer.

None of the coauthors of "Environmental Effects of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide" had any more standing than Robinson himself as a climate change researcher. They included Robinson's 22-year-old son, Zachary (home-schooled by his dad), along with astrophysicists Sallie Baliunas and Willie Soon. Both Baliunas and Soon worked with Frederick Seitz at the George C. Marshall Institute, a Washington, D.C., think tank where Seitz served as executive director. Funded by a number of right-wing foundations, including Scaife and Bradley, the George C. Marshall Institute does not conduct any original research."

I find it incredible that anyone could read the history and qualifications of the authors and the status of the institute and then give this any credence (unless you believed it anyway, in which case - please have your debates elsewhere).

In posting this I am NOT saying that the Greenhouse Effect is confirmed (although the skeptics are a fringe minority), nor that human actions are responsible. I would just like to see threads like this moved to the appropriate place.

[wodin]

I never read the article.

There are always sceptics. I remember reading a few articles where scientists in their mind proved global warming didnt exist. A freinf read it and said "See I told you its all rubbish, its just scare mongering besdies who would complian about having a hot summer and a tan"?

"Me" I replied. I hate the summer to hot. Im a autumn and spring man.

[Hunpecked]

ORIGINAL: wodin

The USA pulling out of the treaty is appaling and to be honest an utter disgrace. Though it was obvious a man of oil wasnt going to go along with it.

When a "sense of the Senate" resolution against the Kyoto treaty passed 95-0 in 1997, President Clinton didn't even bother submitting the treaty to the Senate.

http://www.nationalcenter.org/KyotoSenate.html

As I recall, Clinton wasn't a "man of oil." [:)]

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Kyoto is a crock, there I said it.

Kyoto will not fix anything. No better than a band aid for a traumatic amputation.

Read enough of that link Kakoda, to realise, the people in question are really just funny.

Did you know a beer a day is good for you? It is. 24 is not though.

Did you know chocolate has an ingredient in it that fights plaque?. Pity everything else in it causes plaque.

My concern is that we know what makes the onset of an Ice Age occur. We might not know exactly when the next one will happen, but I find it odd no one cares to do anything to avoid assisting those conditions.

The chances are we will see global drought create severe political turmoil that will result in a major global conflict BEFORE we see an Ice Age.

We are also risking a major incident based on a scientist playing with DNA research that gets out of hand. I don't say don't fiddle with DNA, I am just saying don't pretend it's just about making bigger strawberries.

I read an alarming article in a Geographic a year or so back. We better start looking into the status of the world's underground auquifers. Because if the article was correct, we will be dealing with a lot of problems, and in our life times, not our kids.

[heintz28]

<SARCASM>
The constant charring of the enemy bodies, with the use of incendiaries and flamethrowers, is of great concern to us.
They do tend to put off large quantities of CO, HS and CO2 fuminations.
Therefore,
Let us all join hands and swear an oath... Never to use the Flamethrower in anger (or to make smoke screens).
The Germans , of course, are exempt. [8D]
</SARCASM>
Sorry ... a lurker cant resist sometimes[8|]

[Mangudai]

It's an excellent site (I just bookmarked it). The research looks good, the tone is sober and moderate. Yep, we are increasing greenhouses gases by a tiny fraction. Yep, the Earth could warm up a few degrees (2-4C) in the next century, if the cooling trend we are in now reverses. Maybe some bad things will happen, some good things will happen too, like fewer crop killing frosts during the growing season. But, overall I don't think it's worth panicking about, or giving up fossil fuels just yet.

Another thing, anybody who lives in a high humidity area knows, the main affects of the greenhouse effect are felt at night. Damn it's hot and muggy in the midwest right now! I wish I was in Arizona where it cools off at night.

BTW: I'm not sure how this relates to SPWAW. Did this become the unnofficial AOW?

BTW:

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Nah not AoW, just some guys discussing something OTHER than 8.2 for a bit hehe.

It would have to involve someones religious views, or someone slagging a politician to make it AoW material.

Hey I can handle at least one non wargaming thread in here if it is at least kept interesting eh.

So, I ask again, anyone know anything about our planets underground aquifiers? Or more directly, has anyone been following the situation with our farmers out in the grain growing areas?

[Thayne]

The earth has an emission spectrum. In it, the earth emits a lot of energy in the infrared range.

CO2 has an absorbtion spectrum. One of the bands in that absorbtion spectrum is in the infrared range.

Increasing CO2 concentrations will absorb extra energy.

These bands cannot become saturated because the molecule has the ability to absorb energy 'near' the ideal frequency, and will do so with increasing frequency as the amount of gas increases.

The formulae for this are well known and fixed. We are talking about laws of nature here.

A doubling of CO2 from pre-industrial level means an increase energy of about 4 watts per square meter (column of air to the troposphere). To dissipate this extra energy and restore equilibrium, the temperature of the atmosphere would have to increase about 3 degrees C.

Feedback mechanisms complicate the picture. Some add to the final total (increased temps mean increase H2O concentrations as well, and H2O is a greenhouse gas), while others subtract from the total (increased H2O may mean additional clouds, which reflect more solar energy back into space).

However, nothing short of magic can affect the basic component.

You have to believe in magic to believe that the CO2 concentration can double, and this will have no effect on the amount of energy the atmosphere will absorb.

Now, back to the war.

[robot]

what the hell has global warming or this thread got to do with wargaming. I thought i was over on aol or something. For goodness sake were tryin to discuss something here that wont happen for over a million years. My line and your line of kin will be long gone. Gunny im sorry but i thought you would have stepped in long ago on this. This should have been stopped days ago in my opinion.