Newbie tips: turn #1 (Japanese Player + some Allied info)

[Drex]

So small ships(1000 tns) should be kept in the inland sea and environs?

[Mr.Frag]

ORIGINAL: marc420

Uh-oh, I smell a GG UI here. I have to hit "cancel loading" in order to make the troops load?

And even though an amount of supply has been taken to the docks and orders given to load it onto ships, a factory across town can still somehow use up the supplies???

Arggh! I'd forgotten the pain of playing a game with one of GG's UIs. [X(]

No. This only happens because YOU go on a click fest and use up the supply elsewhere *before* the ships are loaded upgrading aircraft and factories. Ships load whats there. If you take it away from them, it obviously is not available to be loaded. Ships will not take all supply from the base, it exerts it's own priority and says "no, I need xxx". On any normal turn, this would not matter, they would just stay until the supplies were available. The point is that the first turn move is special. You will be left sitting there waiting for supplies and loose the move speed advantage. Pretty simple to understand for most folks and has nothing to do with the UI. It is just one of those standard newbie pitfalls.

[sven6345789]

let me get this straight.

You load troops on turn 1 and supplies. automatic immediate loading because of turn 1. Once you TF has loaded the troops, you send it to some place for turn 1. before you finish you turn, you have to cancel any further loading of supplies because otherwise, the TF might spend turn one with loading instead of moving.
correct?

[Mr.Frag]

You load troops on turn 1 and supplies. automatic immediate loading because of turn 1. Once you TF has loaded the troops, you send it to some place for turn 1. before you finish you turn, you have to cancel any further loading of supplies because otherwise, the TF might spend turn one with loading instead of moving. correct?

Not quite. Only happens if you try and strip the place and cram stuff on every ship you own (common newbie start).

Give you an example.

Taan has a hundred odd ships and a lot of troops. You have more then enough ships to load *everything* at the base.

As you load the ships, supply gets loaded with the troops.

As you load *more* ships, the amount of supply available continues to go down.

Eventually, you will get into the range that ships are no longer loading to 100% because of the base rule that holds back supplies to keep the base running.

Because *these* ships are not fully loaded, they will still be set to loading supplies.


Since there is no more supplies to be loaded, they will *not* sprint off to target with the turn one speed. They will be waiting for the rest of the supplies to show up and load them.

Clicking "Cancel Loading Supplies" ensures that these ships don't stick around to finish loading. They will leave partly empty BUT will use the turn one move speed and arrive at the target on turn 1

[Rendova]

makes sense. Just one more thing to learn

[captskillet]

Frag....I assume it loads enough to cover the troops you got onboard??

[Mr.Frag]

Frag....I assume it loads enough to cover the troops you got onboard??

No, you will be relearning the entire concept for loading things from scratch. It has been completely gutted and redone to make sense.

example time:

You have an HQ unit which is 300 support. Support has a load cost of 20 per element.

That gives you 6000 Infantry type load factors.

Taking an AP that has 3000 capacity, one sees that Infantry load factors take 1 space per element.

Take 3x 3000 AP's (9000 capacity).

The 6000 infantry factors will spread out over those 3 ships (2000 per). The remaining space (1000) will get loaded with supplies *but* AP's are not suited to carry supplies (load factor of 3) so you have 1000 space devided by 3 or 333 supplies.

You will end up with:

100 troops per ship and 333 supplies.

Adding a 4th ship to the mix:

4x 3000 AP's (12000 capacity)

1500 troops factors x1
500 supply factors x 3

75 troops per ship, and 500 supplies.

Change to AK's ... oh oh ... brain starting to hurt!!!

AK load Infantry at a factor of 6 but supplies at a factor of 1

still have 6000 infantry load factors ... so 6000 x 6 (ouch!) or 36000 AK space.

So we scratch our head and come up with 6 7000 AK ships.

so, 42000 space of which 36000 goes to troops and 6000 to supply.

Ship ends up looking like: 50 Troops, 1000 supply.

Brain still not gushing blood yet? You really want me to go on?

[Rendova]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Frag....I assume it loads enough to cover the troops you got onboard??

No, you will be relearning the entire concept for loading things from scratch. It has been completely gutted and redone to make sense.

example time:

You have an HQ unit which is 300 support. Support has a load cost of 20 per element.

That gives you 6000 Infantry type load factors.

Taking an AP that has 3000 capacity, one sees that Infantry load factors take 1 space per element.

Take 3x 3000 AP's (9000 capacity).

The 6000 infantry factors will spread out over those 3 ships (2000 per). The remaining space (1000) will get loaded with supplies *but* AP's are not suited to carry supplies (load factor of 3) so you have 1000 space devided by 3 or 333 supplies.

You will end up with:

100 troops per ship and 333 supplies.

Adding a 4th ship to the mix:

4x 3000 AP's (12000 capacity)

1500 troops factors x1
500 supply factors x 3

75 troops per ship, and 500 supplies.

Change to AK's ... oh oh ... brain starting to hurt!!!

AK load Infantry at a factor of 6 but supplies at a factor of 1

still have 6000 infantry load factors ... so 6000 x 6 (ouch!) or 36000 AK space.

So we scratch our head and come up with 6 7000 AK ships.

so, 42000 space of which 36000 goes to troops and 6000 to supply.

Ship ends up looking like: 50 Troops, 1000 supply.

Brain still not gushing blood yet? You really want me to go on?

As complex as that sounded it actually makes alot of sense..... and while it is going to take a while to learn (hmmmmm maybe starting on a smaller map makes sense after all [8|][8|]) it is going to be an awsome game once I get it down....

One quick question how good is the AI at managing proper use of his shipping. Does it properly use AP vs AKs? Does it try to find a route so that shipping is loaded in both directions? etc.

[Mr.Frag]

One quick question how good is the AI at managing proper use of his shipping. Does it properly use AP vs AKs? Does it try to find a route so that shipping is loaded in both directions? etc.

Yes, the automatic convoy system attempts to route ships in a way that makes sense ... ie: base x needs supplies but base y has resources so swing by base y after dropping off the supplies and bring the resources back home.

The AI being a computer tends to be pretty good at loading things because is *is* a calculator. [;)]

[kev_uk]

Can the mods sticky this thread?
Ta
Kevin

[Fallschirmjager]

Is the "load only troops" button gone?
Wouldnt this keep us from loading on supplies and saving then for AK convoys?

[Mr.Frag]

Is the "load only troops" button gone?

Still available.

Wouldnt this keep us from loading on supplies and saving then for AK convoys?

No. The leftover space in ships is still going to get some supplies tucked in.

[ATENTOKO]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Frag....I assume it loads enough to cover the troops you got onboard??

No, you will be relearning the entire concept for loading things from scratch. It has been completely gutted and redone to make sense.

example time:

You have an HQ unit which is 300 support. Support has a load cost of 20 per element.

That gives you 6000 Infantry type load factors.

Taking an AP that has 3000 capacity, one sees that Infantry load factors take 1 space per element.

Take 3x 3000 AP's (9000 capacity).

The 6000 infantry factors will spread out over those 3 ships (2000 per). The remaining space (1000) will get loaded with supplies *but* AP's are not suited to carry supplies (load factor of 3) so you have 1000 space devided by 3 or 333 supplies.

You will end up with:

100 troops per ship and 333 supplies.

Adding a 4th ship to the mix:

4x 3000 AP's (12000 capacity)

1500 troops factors x1
500 supply factors x 3

75 troops per ship, and 500 supplies.

Change to AK's ... oh oh ... brain starting to hurt!!!

AK load Infantry at a factor of 6 but supplies at a factor of 1

still have 6000 infantry load factors ... so 6000 x 6 (ouch!) or 36000 AK space.

So we scratch our head and come up with 6 7000 AK ships.

so, 42000 space of which 36000 goes to troops and 6000 to supply.

Ship ends up looking like: 50 Troops, 1000 supply.

Brain still not gushing blood yet? You really want me to go on?

REALLY CHARMING, BUT..... IS THERE ANY AUTOMATICS SYSTEM????

[Mr.Frag]

REALLY CHARMING, BUT..... IS THERE ANY AUTOMATICS SYSTEM????

That *is* the automatic system. I am just explaining how it works so you can get the best results out of it. [;)]

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Is the "load only troops" button gone?

Still available.

Wouldnt this keep us from loading on supplies and saving then for AK convoys?

No. The leftover space in ships is still going to get some supplies tucked in.

Now your just confusing me
If I tell a convoy to load only troops, why will they still pack in supplies?

[ATENTOKO]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

REALLY CHARMING, BUT..... IS THERE ANY AUTOMATICS SYSTEM????

That *is* the automatic system. I am just explaining how it works so you can get the best results out of it. [;)]

OK THANKS MR.FRAG. [:)]

[Mr.Frag]

If I tell a convoy to load only troops, why will they still pack in supplies?

No, but understand that troops no longer carry any supplies with them when loading. You will end up with absolutely no supplies at all and wasted space on the ships.

[Fallschirmjager]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

If I tell a convoy to load only troops, why will they still pack in supplies?

No, but understand that troops no longer carry any supplies with them when loading. You will end up with absolutely no supplies at all and wasted space on the ships.

Yes I understand that now (dont exactly like it...but oh well)
However, when possible I will create AK convoys to haul in supplies for an invasion. AP's unload supplies so slow that they tend to hang around far to long and catch all those nasty bombs that planes like to drop.

[Mr.Frag]

However, when possible I will create AK convoys to haul in supplies for an invasion. AP's unload supplies so slow that they tend to hang around far to long and catch all those nasty bombs that planes like to drop.

Understood, but should your AK's run into a sub on the way, they will be a tad late and your troops will land with 0 supply and you will have a completely failed invasion. Pretty dangerous to run separate TF's.

You only have so many escorts to go around. The more TF's you have, the lower the level of escort protection you will have. Better to be strong in a few places then weak in many places.

[ATENTOKO]

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

REALLY CHARMING, BUT..... IS THERE ANY AUTOMATICS SYSTEM????

That *is* the automatic system. I am just explaining how it works so you can get the best results out of it. [;)]

SO SORRY AGAIN MR.FRAG, BUT WHAT´S THE BEST TYPE OF SHIP TO LOAD TROOPS TO??[&:]