Tip: the Japanese 150 mm Mortar

[RichardTheFirst]

I'm playing with the germans a WWII campaign. I found out that the best artillery available in 1939 is the 150 jap mortar. Long range, fairly accurate and (most important) they actually kill! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Just go to nation on the upgrade screen (rarity off)

I even had a battle with a 150 mortar making 12 french kills. Amazing. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

[lnp4668]

The only draw back is that they only fire about 2x/turn. It is better to pick them up for your core force since the section cames in as 2 tubes.

[RichardTheFirst]

Thanks for the comments inp.

Of course i bought them to my core force (the only japs among my german troops <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> )

I didn't understood that thing however about 2x/turn. As far as i saw that is ALL any artillery can fire: at the end of the turn, there is the indirect fire missions and they could fire twice if they have a delay value of 0.1 or 0.2. What do you mean please? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

RTF

[kao16]

Typically 2x/turn would mean rate of fire is limited to 2 shots per turn. I've had GE sp 150mm fire up to 4 times in a turn (excluding op-fire).

On board 75mm How 4x/turn, 81mm mortars up to 6x/turn.

In the indirect fire role you don't notice the 2x/turn effect so much but ony 2 rounds are fired (while my 81mmm mortars will fire 6 rounds).

[RichardTheFirst]

Right, thanks kao.

I understand now what was meant (I'm portuguese actually, thus I may loose some language details).

Anyway in May 1940 I still prefer the JA 150 mortar over the GE 81, fewer rounds but more supression and more kills. And kills are important for experience in a campaign game.

When will the GE onboard 150 mm be available? Looked in the Encyclopedia and it says 1949.... <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Anyway many thanks,

RichardTheFirst

"Vini, vidi, vici" - Julius Caesar

[kao16]

The GE 150mm I'm talking about is the howitzer, not a mortar (30pts each, 15 rounds available, which is why I've attached a ammo truck to the SP 150 platoon)

Playing Stalingrad campaign and I can start with them. I will have to have a look at the OOBs to see when it is available.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by RichardTheFirst:
I'm playing with the germans a WWII campaign. I found out that the best artillery available in 1939 is the 150 jap mortar. Long range, fairly accurate and (most important) they actually kill! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

Just go to nation on the upgrade screen (rarity off)

I even had a battle with a 150 mortar making 12 french kills. Amazing. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

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The most powerful motoar is not Jap but the Italy 210mm motar...ever since a 203mm howitzer in the field....210 mortar act like one.

[El]

My advice is definately german(russian) rocket launchers(onboard) and put few ammo dumps next to them. Since the damage potential of rockets is way better than any other artillery germans can get it is the perfect way to eliminate those pesky russian platoons hiding in forests/hills/insert,some,annoying,place,where,they,hide.

[Larry Holt]

This just goes to show that if you put enough HE out there, you can toast your opponent without having to get dirty from any actual fighting.

The US has taken this approach in recent years and prefered this kind of war of material even in WWII.

Unfortunately for them, few other nations really had the logistics to employ masses of arty and large stockpiles (represented by ammo trucks and dumps) except in some assault/defense scenarios.

The Soviet style was to load up units with ammo then attack until the stocks were exhausted or mobile units had outranged those stocks.

[RichardTheFirst]

Originally posted by Casper:


The most powerful motoar is not Jap but the Italy 210mm motar...ever since a 203mm howitzer in the field....210 mortar act like one.

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I looked it up and you are right. The ITA 210 mm Mortar have better warhead, kill, penetration and accuracy. Only a little worst range. Available since 1930. Many thanks.

Anyway after June 1941 I'm thinking in buying some GE Wurfrahmen 40... Looking good.

RichardTheFirst

"Vini, vidi, vici" - Julius Caesar

[El]

Manly choice. Suits you sir, suits you. (In the last battle I took out 250 russians with 5 of them).

[skukko]

ye-ye, - speak for yourselfs only Gentlemen, I am more for that 81mm mortar.. Only reason to buy Offboard arty (and bigger than 75mm) is that I do hope it to silence other guys 'big OffBoard guns before they kill my infantry.

Arty kills all movement, if I don't want to move I'll play chess or watch TV.

mosh

[brianleeprice]

I'm probably missing something but in play vs humans I've found that too much artillery is not a good thing. A mechanized force (even with C&C on) can stay 'on the move' sufficiently - given decent terrain - so that much of the artillery barrage (even with US 0.1 fast response) will miss. Granted - against US forces (or against an opponent who has been either very good or very lucky with pretargeted point selection) you will take some casualties and some supression since part of the artillery barrage will catch your forces each turn.

I tend to keep my mechanized infantry forces 'saddled up' when they aren't firing so they only get supressed if they're forced to bail or as a result of return fire. The other thing is that I use mobility to keep my reserve forces near the front but out of enemy los as much as possible. If one of my mech platoons starts taking it on the chin, I'll swap it out with the reserve asap.

I also use infiltration and airborne elements as well as fast scout forces to operate behind enemy lines in search and destroy mode for enemy artillery. If my opponent has spent too much on artillery it is very unlikely he or she will have enough rear area skirmishers or front line troops to effectively defend or attack against my more numerous *and* more mobile forces.

But like I said, maybe I'm missing something - is it possible to use so much on board artillery that mobility and rear area counter-arty tactics are ineffective?

Brian Price

[RichardTheFirst]

Like you I like mobility, but over that I like combined arms. And artillery makes an important part of it. Anyway I like to have the most options possible at my disposal any time of the battle so that I can react fast.

RichardTheFirst

"Vini, vidi, vici" - Julius Caesar

[challenge]

I haven't been playing SPWaW that long (a few weeks, maybe), but I've long experence in other TBS games -- including ASL... Artillery is really good to have whether you're in the Nepoleonic age or modern.

It grinds up dug in troops before your forward elements have to face them; smoke covers the movement of your forces so feints and misdirection are more successful ploys; Even units with high mobility are affected by the overwhelming warheads of big guns.

Besides, if you are moving around that much, your offensive fire is not at all accurate, you are at a distinct disadvantage facing return fire with little possibility of seeing the units firing at you, and if your movement is toward specific goals, pre-targeted artillery will still make your life miserable when you stop running around so you can actually take and hold some realestate.

Indirect fire has it's limits, however. That's why you need to defend the on-board batteries with support infantry and be ready to relocate if necessary. This probably isn't as big a deal with the AI opponant, but any human player will want to run down the guns as soon as they're sighted.

Personal opinion, but for what it's worth, I do like at least a few batteries of artillery -- both on and off board.

[Capt. Pixel]

I think the last three posts sum up the Arty vs counter Arty situation succinctly.
There is still the issue that, for every point you've dedicated to your artillery park, you've one less point on the front line.
Defining that 'break-even' point for each component is part of the challenge of combined arms.
Mannerheim-
I agree, I'm an afficianado of Wurfrahmen 40 myself. But the Rocket Arty all suffers from the same problems: Reload rates are atrocious and their accuracy on target is unreliable at best. To even hope to be effective over the course of a game, they need substantial ammo reload capacity. I don't ever like to plot Rockets anywhere within 300m of my forces, which makes them difficult to use once the front line has met and formed.
The 81 and 105mm are much more accurate on target, generally faster response and have reload rates that cut the ammo truck/dump requirements in half. (re my post in The Amazing! NC Ammo Truck)
The smaller bore don't get the flashy kills, but the keep the opponents heads down while you move in close with Infantry and Armor. And then pound 'em into supression from behind while ground troops thump 'em from the front. I've found that I can 'Lean on the Barrage' within 150m of my forces without suffering greatly from friendly fire.
Kao16 -
I just ran a series of experimental set-ups to check Rate of Fire and reload rates on a variety of units, and we don't seem to get the same results. Here are mine:

Mortars Delay End your turn/ end opponents turn
60mm 0.1 9/4
60mm 0.2 6/7
81mm 0.1 8/2
81mm 0.2 4/6
4.2in 0.1 7/1
4.2in 0.2 4/4

Howitzers
105mm 0.1 5/2
105mm 0.2 3/4
150mm 0.1 4/1
150mm 0.2 2/3

The overall rate of fire for continuous barrage appears one or two higher than listed in encyclopedia.
A delay of 0.1 will get 80% to 90% of your ROF on target at the end of your turn, and a 0.2 delay will get about 50% on target on your turn and 50% at the end of the opponets turn. Useful knowledge, if you're trying to target a mobile force. These percentages are repeated in the 0.3, 0.4,0.5 delay times.

Too much artillery does seem to send the balance of play out the window. Among my group of PBEMs, we tend to set limitations on force selection. No OBA, or a limited percentage of the force points are common options. IMHO these limits tend to recreate a more historically plausible battle. We still tend to go Arty and Armor heavy though. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

[El]

2xAmmo Dump. You shoot 2-4 rockets EVERY round. 'Nuff said <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> .

Mannerheim

[Frank W.]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RichardTheFirst:
[QB]I'm playing with the germans a WWII campaign. I found out that the best artillery available in 1939 is the 150 jap mortar. Long range, fairly accurate and (most important) they actually kill! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">

the problem with that is you have no more realism in the game. germans did not use japanese mortars that´s a fact.

[RichardTheFirst]

Originally posted by Frank W.:

the problem with that is you have no more realism in the game. germans did not use japanese mortars that´s a fact.[/QB]

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Perhaps so, but at the same time, they at the time had the possibility to buy some, no? They are very expensive (100) perhaps it's the transportation cost from Japan to Germany. <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

"Vini, vidi, vinci" - Julius Caesar