88mm FlaK/AT question...

mao · Post by **mao** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 9:16 pm

I am playing MCNA and I notice that the 88mm guns act differently to other towed guns; specifically if I move an AT gun or AA gun by truck it cannot fire its main gun the turn it unloads - this is fine but my 88mm guns (they few I have had) can fire, load, unload and fire the main gun again (and do it again).

Is this intended?

tracer · Post by **tracer** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 9:26 pm

Never seen this before...I'd hate to be playing against you! Did you edit/change your OOB's? Sounds like those guns are listed in the wrong class since they're acting like infantry; you might want to open them up in the OOB editor and take a look.

Warhorse · Post by **Warhorse** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 9:27 pm

Maybe simulating the fact it was able to fire in it's limbered state????

White Phosphorus · Post by **White Phosphorus** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 10:53 pm

The Russain 85mm Flak does the same thing.

mao · Post by **mao** » Sat Oct 20, 2001 10:55 pm

I wouldn't know how to edit the OOBs to save my life. Move-and-shoot for 88s is a nice feature, though <img src="wink.gif" border="0">

[ October 20, 2001: Message edited by: mao ]</p>

john g · Post by **john g** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 1:38 am

Originally posted by mao:
I am playing MCNA and I notice that the 88mm guns act differently to other towed guns; specifically if I move an AT gun or AA gun by truck it cannot fire its main gun the turn it unloads - this is fine but my 88mm guns (they few I have had) can fire, load, unload and fire the main gun again (and do it again).

Is this intended?

The heavy flak guns are the exception to the rule, they got left out of the list of units that lose fire when unloading. In the case of the German 88, it is realistic, in that 88's could be down and firing inside of 30 seconds.
thanks, John.

kao16 · Post by **kao16** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 4:28 am

Are people sure about this?

I've been playing hte Stalingraad campaign with 2 x 88's in the AT role (core). Whenever I have stopped to unload they have had Zero (0) shots.

(Using V6.1)

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Sun Oct 21, 2001 8:27 am

Me being playing campaign. Me don't know. Me knows whenever me unloads and loads again me loses 1 shot. But me starts with 2 shots with vet 88 units. That's all me knows.

Goodbye for now to you from me.

RichardTheFirst

"Vini, vidi, vici" - Julius Caesar

El · Post by El » Mon Oct 22, 2001 4:08 pm

Even my 100+ exp crews can't shoot on the turn they unload the tubes.

Mannerheim

mao · Post by **mao** » Mon Oct 22, 2001 4:35 pm

I should clarify; it has not happened in every battle but probably 80% of the scenarios using 88s I could move and fire.

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Mon Oct 22, 2001 7:18 pm

What I've seen when it happens to me, is that it's somewhat dependent on how far the guns are towed in the turn. OSTENSIBLY, the less distance they are moved, then the more "game time" the crews have to set up per turn; which makes some sense.
IIRC both the Soviet 85mm and the 88m could shoot off the limber, but with very restricted traverse.

IKerensky · Post by **IKerensky** » Tue Oct 23, 2001 11:40 pm

88 that do shoot when unloaded aer the 88 with the Heavy Flak designation in the database.

the Pak43 88 AT, is a dedicated AT unit and designed so in the database so it DOESNT have fire ready when unloaded ,that is all.

It is also possible than some og the 88 models ( those with extra AP ammo ) are also designated Heavy AT and so not given right to fire when unloaded. check it into the database.

pax27 · Post by **pax27** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 12:30 am

I think we´re talking about two different guns here altoghether. The Pak43 88 AT was a gun designed as an anti-tank gun, while the 88mm FlaK18 was designed as an anti-aircraft gun. But some smart fellow said (I heard that was mister Adolf himself): Let´s try and shoot some armour with ´em, ´couse they suck at shooting planes anyways.
And so we have the 88mm FlaK18 and the 88mm FlaK18 AT, the same gun basically, but in the OOB´s they´re put under different classes (Heavy FlaK and AntiTank Gun). That´s probably just to sort out wich ones are pointing up and wich ones are pointing straight in your face Sherman! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Now I´d like to know if you really CAN unload and shoot with an 88mm FlaK18 AT, ´couse that would indeed be sweet! Actually, looking at the OOB´s the 88mm PaK43 would be even cooler, but apearently that shouldn´t work though <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
And BTW, have anyone tried to use the 88mm FlaK18 AA to shoot at tanks, or is that simply impossible?

john g · Post by **john g** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 12:39 am

Originally posted by pax27:

And BTW, have anyone tried to use the 88mm FlaK18 AA to shoot at tanks, or is that simply impossible?

It works fine, you just have a lot less ap ammo.

When I did my German WWII campaign, and the Arras easy, I didn't realize that there were 2 88 entries. I bought the 88AA for my core in both cases and lived with the limited AP ammo (I used the 88 to shoot at infantry a lot). They were my 88mm sniper rifles, almost always hit any infantry target and killed many more men than tanks.
thanks, John.

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 12:29 pm

Originally posted by pax27:

Now I´d like to know if you really CAN unload and shoot with an 88mm FlaK18 AT, ´couse that would indeed be sweet!

And BTW, have anyone tried to use the 88mm FlaK18 AA to shoot at tanks, or is that simply impossible?

I have six 88Flaks in my german troops playing the WWII campaign. I thought it could be a good idea to have good heavy flack protection and a powerful AT weapon at the same time. So far (at May 1941), i didn't use them as flack for no enemy planes so far.

Anyway: they do not work very well against tanks in the same turn they unload (+/- 2% chances or so) but works great if they are waiting for the enemy (in fact the 88 it is the best gun in the early war for it penetrates everything). I destroyed 27 british tanks in Arras with only four 88 Flak, most of them Cruisers!

Against infantry: try to direct fire an hex adjacent to infantry and it behaves like a sIG (not as good of course) with damage and supression to infantry. I found that it is even better to unload and shoot the adjacent hex than to direct target the infantry.

"Vini, vidi, vinci" - Julius Caesar

RichardTheFirst · Post by **RichardTheFirst** » Wed Oct 24, 2001 12:58 pm

Just to complete my last reply.

In my oppinion in a campaign with the germans the 88 guns are a must, however perhaps you should consider buy 88 AT at the begginning (I really don't know because all I have is Flak) because (for what was said above in other replies) they behave better in advance/assault missions while the Flak is very good mainly in delay/defend. I haven't test it yet against planes in v6.1 but when I played SP1 (ages ago) they were good if they have veteran or elite crews (more shots) and not very good with green or average crews. I remember to shot down several Mitchells (which is a heavy plane) and other planes then.

I hope this helped...

"Vini, vidi, vici" - Julius Caesar